Forget the Moonswatch, get a CHEAP Grand Seiko 😉

Awesome video as always!

Though, I do have one tiny nit-pick:

• Grand Seiko prices aren't climbing, per se
• The prices of their new releases, with new movements and new technology, are higher than the prices for their older models, but the prices of the older models have not changed much, if at all
• Moreover, Grand Seiko continues to make their older models available for purchase
• For example, the Snowflake still only costs $5,800.  You're only "forced" to pay $9,100 if you decide you want the newer White Birch
• To say that Grand Seiko's prices have skyrocketed, is akin to saying that Porsche's prices have skyrocketed, because they just released the Cayman GT4 RS and the car costs $141k MSRP.  Last I checked, you could get a base Cayman for ~$60k, which is what it cost the year before, and the year before that!
• If Grand Seiko discontinued all their lower priced models, and made it such that you had to spend $9,100 to purchase their lowest priced offering, then I would entirely agree with the "Grand Seiko prices are climbing" sentiment

Sorry to be pedantic, but that's what we're supposed to do as watch nerds on a nerd forum, right?

Unfortunately GS is not really present on the German market, you find them very hard only at a very few ADs. So I am not really experienced in GS, from the pictures and videos I am absolutely drawn to the Omiwatari. 

However of this two watches I would go with the cream color hand wound watch. I love small simple 3hander and I am a sucker for hand wound. You always have a more personal connection to the watch ;)

Pascal, come to San Diego.  Bring your watches.  We will geek out together over lots of alcohol, and I will share my GS collection with you.  And then we shall make the pilgrimage to the Beverly Hills GS Boutique together, where you can try on every single GS watch they make.

Alternately, the manager of the Miami Boutique has promised me a VIP treatment if I ever go out there.  My wife refuses to go ("What?  Travel across the country so that you can look at watches???") so you can be my date for the event.  😜

Well said Max! I have just published a post in which I mentioned how I bought a Seiko today after the Swatch situation... Keep up the good work! 

Great point, I stand corrected on this technicality 😂

1. Great video Max. The SBGW231 is one I've been pineing over for a few months myself but the quartz is stealer! I have plenty of sports watches though and have a thing for dress watches lately.

Haha, the natural alternative to the swoon-mulch

Yeah that 231 is a darling 🤩

Makes sense for a ‘real’ watch. Seiko is a great entry point and for $260 you can get a pretty nice example. I still think the ‘Space Speedies’ are targeting a very different group. 

Nothing to add, Your Honour 🎯

Darn it!  That was no fun!  You were too nice about it.

Max great video and review!  In my stage of watch collecting with high-end Swiss watches to budget watches and everything in between. I have a hard time now these days purchasing a time piece over $250 CDN dollars.  Especially when there are Chinese specials and micro brands that's offer all the specs and materials for less.  This Cadisen C1033 offers possibly 75% of that Grand Seiko for faction of the price and it probably wears exactly the same.  Just my two cents and opinion my man 👊🏽 Stay strong and blessed brother🤙🏽

Excluding the anti-magnetic properties of the Grand Seiko SBGV243, which is still below the AT, Milgauss and some other mechanical watches. When compared to Citizen's (The Citizen A010/A060) offerings at the same or lower price, you will find that the SBGV243 is not very impressive, not at all in fact.

I know you're getting a Grand Seiko for cheap, and if you're paying to have the brand name on your wrist, or you simply like the design, that's fine.
To boast about this watch's technical ability though, is ignorant.

Ignoring my critical thinking brain for a second, I'd say the SBGW231 is quite nice :)

Ok fine, I'll play... Well, a YouTube commenter will 😉

Grand Seiko absolutely is raising prices. I said in the video comments, but just last summer, you could get a Spring Drive for $3,800. Then suddenly they discontinued those models, and replaced them with near identical ones, same design, same movement, just 1mm bigger, for $4,800. You have to pay $1,000 more to buy a Spring Drive. Their newer Hi-Beat models, with the old movement, are at least a few hundred dollars more than older equivalents. My own SBGA413 is now $300 more. A couple of years ago, their most popular models were around $6,000, now the hot ones are $9,000. Yes, you can say that the new movements are more advanced, so naturally more expensive, but that's also a way to drive up prices. Make the desirable models with the new movement, and slowly, over time, deprecate the old movements, so you will have fewer and fewer options at the lower end until they're gone. They may not raise the price of every model, but the prices of the range as a whole is going up. They want to raise their brand equity, have worked really hard to do it, and have largely succeeded, and part of that is raising prices. Price is part of perceived value, Veblen goods, and all that.

Okay!  Okay!   Okay!  I'm wrong!  I concede!

Damn...  you don't have to rub it in!  😜

Yeah, they're raising prices...  but, they still have nice watches, amirite?  😂

You are right. I don't want to pay the higher prices, but I want the watches, so I'll probably will. Sigh. And for the record, I'm not saying they're bad or evil or they haven't earned it, but from my point of view it's an unfortunate reality.

SBGV (245 for me) is the only GS I'd be interested in.  Nice choice, OP.

Haha sounds good! 
but traveling across the world for having a look on watch is maybe not the most cost value ratio from a financial and carbon foot print perspective ;)

@Max Good video on the merits of ‘budget’ GS. The 231 is one classy looking watch. But why is MoonSwatch in that title?? I thought we trying to be positive on here? Surely the sentiment is any watch around 300 bucks? No need to call the MoonSwatch out specifically. Or clickbait the title - we’re all here anyway!

We may hate it but Clickbate is unfortunately how YouTube operates these days. I'll try and keep it off crunch if we really are bothered.

Its your site and I’m the only who’s mentioned it so entirely upto you

This clickbait title is a bit risky. Mind you, it can alienate those who are only after the budget end, and the least expensive of these "CHEAP" GS costs 8 times the MSRP of the Moonswatch. It's a bit like when you're looking after a cheap and economic city car, and you see a title like "Forget the Fiat 500, get a CHEAP Lexus!"

Clickbaits are an efficient method, but one needs to use them wisely.

You can take www watchcharts.com with a grain of salt of course, but a trend is a trend - the aggregate price data shows an increase in the amount people are paying for GS pieces on the secondary market. 

We also know that Seiko in general has bumped up prices pretty much across the board although not necessarily in response to inflation and the cost of raw materials. (I hope they're paying their workers more). 

Whether the increase is as high as @Max says, or higher like WatchCharts would have you believe, or not quite as high as @Omeganut says, I think we can all agree that prices are up in the primary and the secondary markets. 

I don't know... I think of my meager watch collection as some fun and a little like art I guess. I could go out and buy a starter GS, but for that money I'd much prefer to buy a Willard re-release or this God awful chronograph I picked up at an auction for $20. 

Because it's fun. 

I've kinda lost my train of thought but watches, watches, something something... Profit?

Great watch! I personally would love to have my first Grand Seiko watch to be the SBGM221! Price seems to be in the right range for that one. 

Wow!  This is awesome!  Never knew about watchcharts.  Learn something new everyday!  Thank you!

Yeah, okay, it's clear that Grand Seiko prices are going up, and they're also raising prices.  I am totally happy to admit that I was 100% wrong.  Please ignore my initial comment!   😂

Well, good for Grand Seiko.  For the longest time, they were severely under-pricing, then.  They were pricing their watches based on conditions in Japan, where they've been experiencing 30 years of effectively ZERO NGDP growth!  Only now are they waking up to the fact that they have some pricing power.  Here's the beloved GS market share chart:

They went from 24th in revenue share in the U.S. in 2016 to 5th in 2020, with their aggressive under-pricing (Rolex is excluded in the graphic, otherwise the entire pie chart would be nothing but Rolex).

Here's a simple heuristic to understand how under-pricing works with regard to market share:

So, maybe they've decided they have enough market share. and now it's time to raise prices and goose earnings.  Good for them!

@Omeganut don't get me wrong. I totally agree with your point. To say a "brand" or even a particular model has increased in value is to oversimplify in the extreme. There are any number of micro and macro economic factors to take into account when talking about a company with ¥250 billion in revenue (2020), not to mention the whole point of capitalism is to own market share and raise prices to goose earnings! 

Thanks as always for your thoughtful comments 😊

Interesting video but I kept thinking Max's definition of Cheap and Affordable is definitely different than my own lol. 

In seriousness I would agree that it is an attainable price for Grand Seiko and the Seiko-Trava would be one I could maybe see myself wearing.  

I would be happy with either watch, owning a Grand Seiko is one of my grail watches and I wouldn't care if it was a quartz.