Best vintage watch for the money - Cartier Santos Carree ref 2961
As I try to rationalise my collection down a little - this watch is facing the axe. But as I go through the process of selling it - I question myself.
This watch has some pedigree. Firstly the original santos dumont from 1904 is the first pilots watch, sports watch and a very early men’s wristwatch. Then this carree two tone steel example is the very first modern santos reference from 1978 - part of the 1970s luxury steel sports watch big bang. Particularly nice are it’s flat case and links - far more industrial that the curvier galbee iteration introduced in 1987.
It’s got a great size at 29mm*41mm. Roughy similar to the 36mm sweet spot for a round watch. It’s got that iconic cartier white dial and blued hands. It’s even got a little precious metal. The bracelet is a thing of beauty with solid links and a clever - for the time - method to remove them. The mechanical movement is reliable.
These things are worth about £3k. I just think that is seriously undervalued in a world where an AP or Patek 1970/80s steel watch will set you back 20 times the price. And where £3k only buys you quite a sad little 34mm steel rolex with stretched out bracelet.
What do you think? Does my logic only work compared to overpriced brands I have mentioned (after all - one could buy at least three lovely omegas for £3k, or about 20 lovely dress watches from lesser collected brands)?
Is it the two tone that puts people off? Sometimes I’ve heard this described as an old man watch?.. I guess I don’t always like two tone - but in this case it works for me as it’s really the way to have this era santos.
Is the reason the watch isn’t worth more the sizing? I love the size for my wrist - but people do tend to prefer larger. So rather than seeing this as an interesting reference of an iconic watch - many may view it as a smaller not as good version of the modern santos.
Thoughts? Should I follow my gut and keep hold of this and sell something else?
Fairly new to watch collecting. Super fast collecting journey! I've had a bit of everything, small gold pretty watches, large rugged watches, vintage British field watches. From Casio to Patek and eve...
I think the way Cartier is rising in recent years, as more people dive into the brand these classics will only go up in value.
I’d hold onto it if you didn’t need the money.
I think the way Cartier is rising in recent years, as more people dive into the brand these classics will only go up in value.
I’d hold onto it if you didn’t need the money.
You may be on to something
It's a lovely looking watch ,fits you perfectly,if you don't need the money I'd definitely keep it
It's a lovely looking watch ,fits you perfectly,if you don't need the money I'd definitely keep it
Thanks! Though I do note with caution your username might be a cause to believe you are a two tone fan! Haha
Thanks! Though I do note with caution your username might be a cause to believe you are a two tone fan! Haha
Have to disappoint you I don't own any two tone watches ,but I am becoming a fan of white dials because their easier to read without glasses on
Ah it’s just I always get accused of wearing old man watches when I put on a two tone. From the looks of it your watches are rather rugged and youthful.
The Santos, and Cartier in general are a class act and definitely worth the money. My first ever 'grown-up' watch was a Cartier Tank, I still have it today, and it still looks the business 20+ years on. Not quite sure how I developed taste like that in my 20s, but I'm happy I did! Style is eternal as the saying goes.
The Santos, and Cartier in general are a class act and definitely worth the money. My first ever 'grown-up' watch was a Cartier Tank, I still have it today, and it still looks the business 20+ years on. Not quite sure how I developed taste like that in my 20s, but I'm happy I did! Style is eternal as the saying goes.
Oh nice! Yes my first ever AD purchase was the solarbeat tank and that’s going nowhere! Though it took me to 39 years old to home in on it.
I also have a 18k tank Louis which is on a shakier peg but might get a reprieve like this santos.
I agree with some of your choices for sure.
A good example might be a platinum Audemars piguet ultra slim dress watch I sold for about this price (silly me.)
However - the OP 34 comparison is actually the one that has me thinking this is a good price. I have one (and have had others in the past) and to me it’s no contest. The OP 34 date feels like a poor man’s datejust - especially without sapphire - whereas this feels like a really cool piece.
Bottom line is I just really like Cartier I think..
Oh nice! Yes my first ever AD purchase was the solarbeat tank and that’s going nowhere! Though it took me to 39 years old to home in on it.
I also have a 18k tank Louis which is on a shakier peg but might get a reprieve like this santos.
Lovely watch. Tank Louis is superb, but very dressy, so I understand why it'd be on shakier ground.
Over the years my Tank has been on the chopping block several times. However, I'm so glad I never sold it as it was my first watch purchase, and still looks the part.
Anything like this? I traded this one for an oysterquartz earlier this week.
it’s certainly much nicer than my previous one with acrylic. But hand on heart I’d way prefer the santos and £1k change..
As a side note - the bezel really adds visual heft. It feels way more like a classic 36 than my prior date 34.
Historically cool, but not a favorite (of mine) in that configuration 🤔 The all black on the other hand 🤩
Was arguing with myself for a long time – but finally bought a watch. Really happy with it, but I never liked two-tone before.
Also part of mental gymnastic - I think I could sell this watch within a few months for around the same price (hopefully)
Great watch, hope you'll enjoy it 😀
At the risk of being a bellend, I think £75 for a 1950s Vertex Revue, or £90 for a 1940s Universal Geneve might be better described as value for money rather than £3k on a Cartier. You can still buy a new Tank, you can’t get a Revue cal.77 off the shelf (although why would you want to, we’ve moved on a fair bit since then). Then again, it is a very nice classic Cartier, and at the serious end of the watch collecting spectrum where large swathes of cash swaps hands, it’s probably a good bet. It’s hard isn’t it, trying to pitch this idea of value into vintage, because I’m not entirely sure what “value” actually means any more. I can find a working vintage Swiss for less than £25 with a decent movement that runs, and you can buy an Orient Bambino for £200… I know what I’d rather do. Sorry… just throwing my pennies into the pot. Crack on…
Oh totally - I love things like that Tag - even (especially) quartz versions - I have no aversion to quartz and some real bargains. I’ve got some great omegas and a JLC - with a bit of precious metal on - for around £500 each.
I’m digging Tag in general. I’d get the new Solargraph if it wasn’t so expensive (same price as the Solar cartier tank..)
Just on these santos - the movement is ETA based I think so another one that’s super easy to maintain.
At the risk of being a bellend, I think £75 for a 1950s Vertex Revue, or £90 for a 1940s Universal Geneve might be better described as value for money rather than £3k on a Cartier. You can still buy a new Tank, you can’t get a Revue cal.77 off the shelf (although why would you want to, we’ve moved on a fair bit since then). Then again, it is a very nice classic Cartier, and at the serious end of the watch collecting spectrum where large swathes of cash swaps hands, it’s probably a good bet. It’s hard isn’t it, trying to pitch this idea of value into vintage, because I’m not entirely sure what “value” actually means any more. I can find a working vintage Swiss for less than £25 with a decent movement that runs, and you can buy an Orient Bambino for £200… I know what I’d rather do. Sorry… just throwing my pennies into the pot. Crack on…
Oh I go for a bit of everything. Picked up a nice 9ct vertex revue early in my collecting (I still have it - but having inherited a similar watch from my dad it may be for the chop!)
I’ve been all over vintage universal Geneve recently. I want a good white shadow with the micro rotor and cushion style case.
You must have a great collection if this is in the firing line. Lovely watch that has presences and a good pedigree. It’s also very flexible when matched with the occasional. You could change it up a bit by swapping the strap for a black rubber or high end sailcloth, that might allow you to wear it more?
Oh nice you got to try it. Our arms look similar ish so it may not suit me anyhow..
You must have a great collection if this is in the firing line. Lovely watch that has presences and a good pedigree. It’s also very flexible when matched with the occasional. You could change it up a bit by swapping the strap for a black rubber or high end sailcloth, that might allow you to wear it more?
Good idea. Though I do like the bracelet very much.
It is not that I have a great collection. It is that I have a problem!
Good idea. Though I do like the bracelet very much.
It is not that I have a great collection. It is that I have a problem!
Understood. I guess the main issue will be regret v the problem you’re trying to solve.
I have a vintage tag for the same era with the automatic movement (2000 series)! TBH I find it's a fair watch but nowadays you can get a great new watch for the same amount. I think at around ~$250 it's a steal, but if more I would consider other options. Something I particularly like about them is how thin and close they wear to the wrist.
I started looking into getting another similar TAG in two tone (with the sport link bracelet) or the two-tone GMT with a white dial (155.706). Really cool watches, but hard for me to justify purchasing them for the price they are asking.
I have been considering getting a modern Santos Medium in Two Tone but the price is so high (~$13'000 CAD) that it's hard for me to justify. For $3'000 CAD less, you can get a vintage Reverso on a full gold bracelet. Different watches, as the Santos is more sport oriented with it's water resistance, which I prefer, but not sure it's worth the premium for me.
For this reason I consider getting an old two tone Santos. They aren't as water resistance, but have a similar look and I find competes more directly with the Reverso at that price point. Then the question is Reverso vs Santos? This is how I perceive value, by seeing what it "competes with" at a given price range.
Personally I think, money wise, a Santos would keep it's value better, and be more "recognized" especially in today's market with Cartier's upswing in the watch market. On the other hand in the watch community I believe the Reverso is more revered (despite the history not being too different than that of the Santos).
In terms of pure value, as in amount of $$$ put in and amount of specifications you get out of it, there is definitely more value out there. Off the top of my head I thought of the Omega Seamaster (2535.80). It's an Omega, it's a Seamaster, it's water resistance, it has a GMT, I think it's value topped out a while ago, so you won't lose or gain too much on it. I am saying this however I haven't been following the prices lately.
I have been considering getting a modern Santos Medium in Two Tone but the price is so high (~$13'000 CAD) that it's hard for me to justify. For $3'000 CAD less, you can get a vintage Reverso on a full gold bracelet. Different watches, as the Santos is more sport oriented with it's water resistance, which I prefer, but not sure it's worth the premium for me.
For this reason I consider getting an old two tone Santos. They aren't as water resistance, but have a similar look and I find competes more directly with the Reverso at that price point. Then the question is Reverso vs Santos? This is how I perceive value, by seeing what it "competes with" at a given price range.
Personally I think, money wise, a Santos would keep it's value better, and be more "recognized" especially in today's market with Cartier's upswing in the watch market. On the other hand in the watch community I believe the Reverso is more revered (despite the history not being too different than that of the Santos).
In terms of pure value, as in amount of $$$ put in and amount of specifications you get out of it, there is definitely more value out there. Off the top of my head I thought of the Omega Seamaster (2535.80). It's an Omega, it's a Seamaster, it's water resistance, it has a GMT, I think it's value topped out a while ago, so you won't lose or gain too much on it. I am saying this however I haven't been following the prices lately.
Sounds like you need a tank must! About £4.3k CAD
Sounds like you need a tank must! About £4.3k CAD
hahaha on that basis I need a lot of watches! However I have considered a solar beat for my S/O
hahaha on that basis I need a lot of watches! However I have considered a solar beat for my S/O
Do it - it’s phenomenal
When I first started collecting, about 5 yrs ago, I wasn't too big on the Santos. Then I saw a B&W pic of one and for some reason, it changed my perspective, so much so that seriously considered getting one when I could afford it. The amazing history made it doubly attractive. Unfortunately, they've been going up exactly as the graph above implies and are now completely out of my range. It's definitely a classic and, to me, particularly attractive in the two-tone version. It's also very versatile, I could wear one with a suit or with a sports shirt and jeans. Just a great looking piece.
i love the santos
old man's watch?
well just wait
keeper
Looks great on your wrist! I have a 6.3 inch wrist and wondering how this will wear. I understand it wears similar to a 36mm but bracelet of the new Explorer tapers quite a bit hence looks smaller. Any idea in the taper of the Carree since its starts at 18mm I heard. Thanks!
Looks great on your wrist! I have a 6.3 inch wrist and wondering how this will wear. I understand it wears similar to a 36mm but bracelet of the new Explorer tapers quite a bit hence looks smaller. Any idea in the taper of the Carree since its starts at 18mm I heard. Thanks!
These bracelets taper a lot. Probably more than an explorer.