No hate, but why do people buy Richard Mille?

You know what?  This is really weird, but I think I can totally understand why someone might buy and wear and love a Richard Mille.  

I grew up very, very poor, as a first generation immigrant.  I would go out to restaurants, and here's what the menu always looked like to me, and obviously, I would order #5 for dinner:

As I'm now approaching my 5th decade on this earth, life has been remarkably good to me, and money is no longer a concern.  Now when I go out to eat, this is what the menu looks like.  And I order whatever I'm in the mood for:

I am willing to spend whatever on a meal, and not think twice about it.  When it comes to my hobbies, I also will buy nearly whatever watch without thinking twice about it - Omega, Breitling, Rolex, and GS, etc., etc.

I am not, however, at a point in life where I could buy a Richard Mille and not think twice about it.  But, that's only because I'm not as rich as the folks who do buy Richard Mille watches.  

People who buy Richard Mille watches probably all have enough money that they don't think twice about dropping $100k for something they like.  These are the same people who buy the Pagani Huayra.  I look at the Huarya, and I think it's uglier than sin!  Who in their right mind would spend $2.5M+ on that monstrosity, when you can get a mid-engine Porsche Cayman for $60k???

But, then again, by the same token, 18 year-old Omeganut would look at 47 year-old Omeganut and kick the living s&^% out of 47 year-old Omeganut.  And every punch 18 year-old Omeganut landed on the older version, he would yell, "You spent how much money on stupid watches?  You can get a Casio F91W that tells the time better and more accurately for $13.99 on Amazon, you idiot!"  One last punch to the jaw:  "And, your Grand Seikos are ugly!"

It's because people actually like that type of design. As I wrote in another thread: Invicta owners bought their watches because they appeal to them. I'm sure RM owners are also happy with what they got.

I have colleagues who personally know "Richard" As he's always referred to and he gives away a lot of those every year  I won't go into more details because I don't know if it's common knowledge and saying too much might get me in trouble, but that could be the reason why you see so many around. 

Jewelry is loaned to celebs for big events (Oscars, Emmys, etc.).  I would be surprised if watches aren't loaned for similar functions.

This is as good as any other explanation I've heard

I've heard it said a couple days ago that he gives about 5M euros worth of watches every year

If I had the money I would probably buy one to upset people, and probably in pink or yellow. 

It is like NFTs. Ugly and Unique helps you launder money exclusively. 

I've said this on another post before but I think RMs are badass watches. They're certainly not made to suit everyone's taste but I think that's the point. Yes, they're over-engineered, ultra-expensive, and super over-the-top, but it's great to have independent watchmakers that are willing to go big. It pushes the creativity of the industry overall, which is needed or we'll all be stuck with simple round watches. The Swiss are conservative by nature (I'm Swiss) and at times very boring (ahahha) so I think it's always good to have some big and loud players in the mix. It keeps it interesting. 

I'm not sure if you've seen/held/tried on Richard Mille watches in person but when I did, I understood the appeal. I found them to be truly spectacular "in the metal" -- so light!  

RM watches are homages to the watches of wish.com. I see an RM I think "Forsining".

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is art like Pollock that looks like a bad job by 5yr old. Yet it sells for millions. Jacob and co has watches that costs $7-$8 million. You would need security guard to wear that in public. It's all about what statement you want to make. When you flash a RM on your wrist, doors open with very little effort. Don't project your wallet, there are many people out there who won't think twice before dropping a black card on something like an RM. 

I think that the criticisms fall into two categories:  How does it cost so much (conspicuous consumption)? and, Why does it look like that (design aesthetic)? Neither of those address your point:  great materials, great movements.  Mille has taken his own course through an industry where innovation has been somewhat incremental.

I think those who dislike the design believe that he is the Jeff Koons of the watch world. That is unfair to Mille.  In our modern economy there will always be someone at the apex of the price curve.  No need to be a hater.

True although the price they demand is mad. 

That's a fair point, I'd imagine they are impressive. Although I can't get over the price lol, someone's having a field day selling those.

So it's essentially flashing wealth in order to get special treatment. That would make sense as they aren't exactly inconspicuous. 

Anything that is obvious a sign of wealth is on that list, but it's all relative to the circles you move in. 

If your friends wear Patek, ALS, VC, etc., a Rolex isn't going impress. 

If your friends wear Casio, Lorus, Timex, etc., a Hamilton is going to impress.

Beyond watches, people do it with clothes, houses, cars, and even things like food/booze. 

Invite the neighbours over, to feed them Ribeye, and 18 year old single malt, after going to their place the week before to have Busch Lattes, and burgers... Same idea in the end.

You know what's fascinating to me?  There's this saying that goes, "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."  The idea is that it becomes IMPOSSIBLE for us to understand the internal logic of another's decisions / thinking, be it a different time period, a different gender, a different culture... and definitely a different level of wealth.

(Fascinating aside:  We laugh at depictions of witches chanting some spell as they stir different potions into their boiling cauldrons.  Medieval recipes specifically instructed the reader to make particular incantations.  Which is absolutely ridiculous to us moderns...  except, it turns out that people in the Middle Ages didn't have F.P. Journes!  They didn't even have mecha-quartz chronographs to time things!  In the absence of a Navitimer that could tell them that 90 seconds had passed, recipes told the reader to recite a well-known chant, that just happened to take about 90 seconds or so to get through, before adding the next ingredient!  The past is a foreign country!)

I've spent a good deal of time on different Internet forums and I'd be a rich man if I had 5 cents for every post I've read where somebody has said, "Well, rich people do X."  Or, "Here's how rich people think."  Or, "The reason rich people do X is because of Y."

Well, turns out I am by some definitions a rich man, and no, I don't do X because of Y!  I have my own reasons for doing X.  And I'm sure my friends who by some definitions are also rich do X, but they have reasons other than my own for doing X.

Most of the fabulously wealthy people I know would never in a million years buy / wear a Richard Mille.  But, by the same token, they would never in a million years buy / wear a Speedmaster or an Overseas, much less a Laurent Ferrier.  They wear Apple Watches, or nothing.  Some drive Teslas.  One just got a Genesis GV80.  None of them drive sports cars.  Not a single one.  No Ferraris, no Lambos, no McLarens.  These are people who were, respectively, the former CEO of a Fortune 200 tech company, CFO of a high-flying startup that just went IPO and whose shares are worth $100M, former Global Head of Strategy of a Fortune 200 tech company.  Of all my friends, I'm the only one with a Porsche, but I like to think that's because I'm a petrolhead.  Or maybe I'm a poser.  Though, if I were a poser, I wouldn't be aware of that fact at all, would I?

When I see my friends spending their money on the things they spend their money on, they do so because they have their own reasons for doing so.  Each reason is idiosyncratic.  Each person is an individual, who is making individual choices.  One of them bought a massive ranch out by Lake Tahoe and has a bunch of buffalo on it.  Can we then generalize and say, "Rich people like buffalo"?  No.  This dude is weird and wanted a ranch, and so he got a ranch with f*&^ing buffalo on it.  Why did he buy a ranch with buffalo on it?  I'm guessing he bought a ranch with buffalo on it because he likes ranches with buffalos on 'em, and he has the money to do so without thinking twice about it, so why not?

Why do people buy Richard Mille watches?  I'm guessing they buy them because they like them, and they have the money to do so without thinking twice about it, so why not?

Hey, it's me, your local economist. For this question, the theory of a "veblen good" might interest you. I will explain in a shorten way, but feel free to look it up it's very interesting.

So, a normal good act in such a way that if price goes up, the demanded quantitu goes down. That it very instinctive: if the coffee cream price goes up, some people who prefered cream will buy milk instead because it is less worth the difference as price goes up. Here, the price is NOT a factor of the preference people have for milk or cream. Said otherwise, the price going up is STRICTLY bad in consummers head.

But for some luxury goods that could really be Veblen good, the price IS a factor of appreciation / preference for the consummer. So when the price goes up, some consummer who would have prefered an other watch (the milk) will now prefer the watch that got up in price (the cream).

This is obviously not all there is to the theory, but i will not write a full essay in here :p (english is my second language, please escuse my errors).

We all have these luxury watches for some combination of inward and outward effect. I don't care for attention and so only wear what impresses or moves me -- inward flex. Some may have Richard Mille for that reason but the design seems more likely to be an outward flex. It certainly signals some exclusivity. My middle class upbringing just couldn't get over how many other things I would rather spend that money on, but then someone with less money than me would say the same about Grand Seiko. And maybe I'd feel differently if I my net worth was ten figures, like Omeganut describes. Though I'd more likely go on a shopping spree for A. Lange & Söhne.

I think you really nailed it with the middle class upbringing comment. 

I suspect most people commenting on this are/were working class, or middle class. The sensibilities that work for people at that end of the economic spectrum don't necessarily apply when you cross over into being genuinely rich. 

When you can drop $200K on a whim, you're living in a completely different world than the rest of us. 

I watched a show about mega yachts a couple of years back, and one of the owners made a comment I though was amusing, but that also stuck. He said that if the average person really knew the wealth and lifestyle mega yacht owners, they'd bring back the guillotine. 

Just remembered I wanted to touch on something else you mentioned. Every day when we wake up, get dressed and leave the house, we put on a costume. We put on the clothes and accessories that signal to the world how we want other people to perceive us. We don't even realize we are doing it most of the time, it's something we just do. Even dressing like you don't care what other people think, is still signalling to other people. 

Watches fall into this category just as much as clothes, but they signal to the outside world in a less obvious way to average people. 

Why do some folks buy Richard Mille watches ? Because they can.

Buying an RM makes more sense to me than paying EUR 85,000 or more for a worn out Rolex 1675 with a stretched bracelet, replaced bezel and a degraded dial (oh, sorry a 'tropical' dial 😜). Everyone's taste is different and everyone buys what they like.

It's only when you have looked at an RM close up and had it on your wrist for even a few minutes that you can really determine what you think about it.

As @papakyoto wrote, RMs are almost like NFTs. The production effort that goes into these watches is actually rather high, and in contrast to many other watch designs they are hard to copy. Does the design appeal to me in particular? No, but I understand why these watches exist.

Maybe with the exception of somebody in a customer facing position, as those are most likely acutely aware of how you dress for a particular region, a particular customer or a particular event. I usually slightly overdress at work every day, but living in the Midwest would never drive a luxury car to an appointment with a customer, or wear an flashy watch for that matter.

I would say that the average person is not able to "decode" a watch, as very expensive watches can look very understated, and vice versa. 

It's a good point you make there, thinking about it people don't understand why I bought a 62 sunbeam rapier or why I collect old  books. I guess as you say some things appeal to people and some things don't. 

That's a good way to explain it, I'm middle class, so I don't understand. I was raised to save my money and only buy what I could comfortably afford. The rich definitely live in a different world, they don't really have any struggle to survive financially, so I suppose while 100k/200k is a silly amount to spend on a watch for me, for them it's just another day of shopping. 

makes sense the more people point this out.

Honestly that's a really good way to explain it, thanks for taking the time to contribute.

In fact you reminded me of a situation I've come across it, a few years back I was in a pub with mates and this very drunk stranger starts talking to me. He starts waving this Rolex in my face, saying how he just got it and obviously he was doing this because it was a 8k to 10k watch at the time. I guess when people see something expensive and somewhat exclusive there is an urge to buy it if they can because the price makes it out of reach for the average Joe. And for the record, your English is excellent and that's coming from a Brit lol.

They like them.