A sobering talk with my watchmaker

I went into a longtime watchmaker of mine, an older gentleman I don't even have the name of, but one I've been going to for over a decade now. Long story short, he told me exactly what I needed to hear with regards to this misalignment, and that the effort / price to fix it isn't worth the fuss.

He's also well aware of Seiko QC issues, so it's always nice to have a small echo chamber right down the road from me.

Anyone else need just a little bit of reassurance? I know I have much bigger fish to fry and was hoping for perfection from such a big company. I'm not turned off one bit to them.

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As much as I get people's frustrations with misalignment, I also think it's often overblown. I have a couple of dive watches where the bezel is slightly misaligned, but unless I'm looking for it, it's not noticeable.

Until you're paying for individually hand crafted watches, some degree of misalignment is likely.

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KristianG

As much as I get people's frustrations with misalignment, I also think it's often overblown. I have a couple of dive watches where the bezel is slightly misaligned, but unless I'm looking for it, it's not noticeable.

Until you're paying for individually hand crafted watches, some degree of misalignment is likely.

Exactly. I know these companies allow some degree of tolerance with their manufacturing and it would be impossible to make hundreds of thousands of watches fit right.

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Jewbaka

Exactly. I know these companies allow some degree of tolerance with their manufacturing and it would be impossible to make hundreds of thousands of watches fit right.

I have seen some really bad examples before, but even Rolex occasionally puts out a bad one.

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KristianG

I have seen some really bad examples before, but even Rolex occasionally puts out a bad one.

You can imagine me searching up "Patek misalignment" or "Audemars misalignment" at 2 in the morning.

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At least it's not this pricy!

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How did you ever see that minuscule amount of "misalignment"???

(10 years and you never got his name??)

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foghorn

How did you ever see that minuscule amount of "misalignment"???

(10 years and you never got his name??)

I believe his name is David, and I was looking at it with a loupe under some light.

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You are being very charitable to an enormous corporation that has been making watches for nearly 150 years. These bezel alignment problems have been known to exist for years and can't seem to be corrected. QC issues happen with all brands in all price ranges. I can't think of one that has been ignored by the corporation like this one has.

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Aurelian

You are being very charitable to an enormous corporation that has been making watches for nearly 150 years. These bezel alignment problems have been known to exist for years and can't seem to be corrected. QC issues happen with all brands in all price ranges. I can't think of one that has been ignored by the corporation like this one has.

Very true. In my industry of aviation I see bigger gaps in tolerance than this all over the place unfortunately, and I figured I should apply the same thinking to companies like Seiko. On the other hand, I shouldn't excuse them for this sort of thing.

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Where did you buy the watch from?

If this really bothers you, return the watch if you bought it online. I never bother with misalignment unless it is blatantly obvious at the first glance and I don't have to stare at it to find the issue. I personally never buy Seiko watches online unless I get a look at the piece shipped to me (you can ask for it if you buy through certain grey market dealers).

The chapter ring misalignment issues in most cases are due to the tolerances of the tiny notch in the case/dial in which they have to seat the feet of the chapter ring. We are talking about 0.1mm tolerances in a tiny notch which can shift a whole chapter ring by a few degrees. Also, to fix the alignment, you have to remove the crystal and glue the chapter ring plus it is not an easy process in the case of these models. Graduated chapter rings are never going to be 100% perfect all the time. If you see newer Seiko dive watches, the chapter rings are gone and you get the seconds marking printed on the dial and pressed indices, so it essentially negates the misalignment cases on the dial (bezel misalignment is a different problem).

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nightfury95

Where did you buy the watch from?

If this really bothers you, return the watch if you bought it online. I never bother with misalignment unless it is blatantly obvious at the first glance and I don't have to stare at it to find the issue. I personally never buy Seiko watches online unless I get a look at the piece shipped to me (you can ask for it if you buy through certain grey market dealers).

The chapter ring misalignment issues in most cases are due to the tolerances of the tiny notch in the case/dial in which they have to seat the feet of the chapter ring. We are talking about 0.1mm tolerances in a tiny notch which can shift a whole chapter ring by a few degrees. Also, to fix the alignment, you have to remove the crystal and glue the chapter ring plus it is not an easy process in the case of these models. Graduated chapter rings are never going to be 100% perfect all the time. If you see newer Seiko dive watches, the chapter rings are gone and you get the seconds marking printed on the dial and pressed indices, so it essentially negates the misalignment cases on the dial (bezel misalignment is a different problem).

I picked it up from a dealer on eBay. This is all great information too! Makes me feel a lot more at ease about it. It's moreso just having factory character in a new watch but I noticed that it isn't just me.

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I'm usually not too bothered by a small misalignment if the watch functions well otherwise. But some are harder to unsee than others.

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Jewbaka

I picked it up from a dealer on eBay. This is all great information too! Makes me feel a lot more at ease about it. It's moreso just having factory character in a new watch but I noticed that it isn't just me.

If you can only see the misalignment with a loupe, then just think of it like a fresh scratch on your new watch which is become its character as time goes.

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gbelleh

I'm usually not too bothered by a small misalignment if the watch functions well otherwise. But some are harder to unsee than others.

I'd rather see it everyday than have it opened up and potentially made worse.

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nightfury95

If you can only see the misalignment with a loupe, then just think of it like a fresh scratch on your new watch which is become its character as time goes.

That's what I'm gonna do moving forward, and it'll benefit me with every new purchase in the future.

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Aurelian

You are being very charitable to an enormous corporation that has been making watches for nearly 150 years. These bezel alignment problems have been known to exist for years and can't seem to be corrected. QC issues happen with all brands in all price ranges. I can't think of one that has been ignored by the corporation like this one has.

Don’t get anyone started about bracelets 😂

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The issue can be corrected, but it is also correct that it won't be cost-effective unless you do it yourself. Also, it is likely that a misalignment will merely be reduced. Why? Because it's not only the alignment at the 12 o'clock position, but most bezels and minute tracks are not 100% evenly spaced, meaning that it is possible to trade one misalignment for another. (This is by no means limited to Seiko.)

Why is this not fixed? Because the regular Seiko buyer, which are not enthusiasts, doesn't seem to mind, similar to the bracelet question. In the meantime, Seiko continues to produce nice cases and pretty dials because they seem to matter to the general public.

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Just buy a Movado Museum watch.

Problem solved.

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Jewbaka

It's hit or miss. I've seen GS models, SRPs and Tunas with misalignment issues.

I actually own one from the Presage GMT line with a misaligned bezel so… even the higher tiers from Seiko are affected by this…

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We're misaligned-chapter-ring twinsies

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KristianG

As much as I get people's frustrations with misalignment, I also think it's often overblown. I have a couple of dive watches where the bezel is slightly misaligned, but unless I'm looking for it, it's not noticeable.

Until you're paying for individually hand crafted watches, some degree of misalignment is likely.

But Seiko has all the latest technology of automation at their disposal, you would expect misalignment issues would not be so common. This goes especially for the mass produced models like Seiko 5 and their lower-tier divers. I would expect it from an AliExpress special like a Pagani or Steeldive, but Seiko? How are we OK with such low expectations?

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Thanks for this topic as I, like most of us, have encountered misaligned or slightly off hands, bezels, dials before and I asked myself why this bugged me? A watch is supposed to be a tool to precisely measure time so the key part is "precision". If it runs too fast, too slow, can't be read in bad light, has so much glare you can't read it, etc. all are examples of issue that are less than precise and should not be part of a watch that at its core, is about precision. I still love those few watches and didn't get rid of them. I can live with being less than precise as life is messy and rarely conforms to my wishes or needs. However, if I was a watch maker . . . any element, no matter how small, in a watch I create and produce that is not exactly right would not be acceptable. All those components, all those gears, all that technology is to be . . . precise.

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foghorn

Just buy a Movado Museum watch.

Problem solved.

I used to have one, and I plan on getting another since they're one of my favorites.

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How long until the maker gives up and just gives you machinery to do it yourself, eh?

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I don't think it's tired if people like me are new to a brand and documented deficiencies with that brand. It has become a meme at this point with Seiko.

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Wishing you the best of luck moving forward with this company.

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Jewbaka

I don't think it's tired if people like me are new to a brand and documented deficiencies with that brand. It has become a meme at this point with Seiko.

Agree with you here. If problem was hard to see, I’d ignore, but an obvious QC issue would probably bug me as well.

As I said above - still haven’t been able find this problem in person despite an insane amount of prospexs, presages and higher range Seikos having been on my wrist.

But some possible solutions might be:

Consider buying in person so you can look it over? Good idea for any watch of course. Or asking seller directly about alignment?

I bought a Turtle online from Topper Jewlers - but haunted by internet stories I emailed first to ask shop if any alignment issue, or any other issue, I wasn’t seeing.

Topper adds 1 year warranty to all used watches anyway, so I suppose it could’ve been remedied if needed. But watch was perfect.

Now that I think of it, Seiko gives 1 year warranty on all watches. This still depends on getting the watch from some sort of dealer though.

Buying from random internet guy would void the warranty understandably. For what it’s worth, I’ve used my Seiko warranty once before and had no issue with it.

I wonder if there are a 2 dozen bad aligned watches that circulate on eBay and forums, sold and re sold again and again 🤔

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Ive said this in a separate thread that garnered an unpopular response by the gatekeepers of WC; i do not get why the community is not okay with a slight misalignment on a SEIKO, let alone a SEIKO 5, but do not seem as bothered when some high, mighty Swiss companies used to hide the fact that they disguised their SEIKO movements as “in-house”.

Heck, there are now PLENTY of swiss companies with misalignment issues, but the target is still the same cheap Seiko. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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M.addd

Ive said this in a separate thread that garnered an unpopular response by the gatekeepers of WC; i do not get why the community is not okay with a slight misalignment on a SEIKO, let alone a SEIKO 5, but do not seem as bothered when some high, mighty Swiss companies used to hide the fact that they disguised their SEIKO movements as “in-house”.

Heck, there are now PLENTY of swiss companies with misalignment issues, but the target is still the same cheap Seiko. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I speak for myself when it comes to Seiko, as I haven't had any issues with my Panerai yet, or when I received it a few years ago. This thread showed me how polarizing of a topic this is and how different the opinions are; really fascinating stuff.

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Just sent my barely used PRX green dial last week with a movement issue. Hopefully they don't send mine back with issues like this😅

That was my third Tissot with an issue which has gone back to Tissot. Never had an issue with their service to date.