We need to talk about China
I think this is a reminder that China is close to where Japan was in the early 70s. That in-between period of transitioning from copying stuff to being amazing designers and engineers in their own right. Arguably, they got there with watches a long time before they started killing it with tellies and motors. Here is a case in point. The bracelet with its pull/twist self adjust is ingenious, but the job is half done. No half links and no on the fly adjust (the clasp is something of a crime), but I have my cheap, beater automatic and it keeps good time. Mucking about with the micro adjust was an exercise in persistence for clumsy old me.
Second Chinese watch I’ve bought. The first, a Seagull 1963 is a true original. This one looks like the ******d love child of a Rolex and a Tudor. For a demo of the world‘s easiest to adjust bracelet, I learned how to do it here.
https://youtu.be/906Jk7hyjvI
For someone who isn’t really a collector, I have quite a few watches.
Your 1963 is built on machinery that the Chinese purchased in 1955 from the Swiss movement maker Venus that was used to make their calibre 175. They have learned quite a bit about making watches in 67 years Including how to build tourbillions for 1/12 th of the price of the least expensive Swiss version. The Chinese people are remarkable and thanks to them I own a complication which I otherwise would not be able to afford.
I've been thinking about how to describe China based watch making for a while and you got it spot on.
They make 40% of all the parts for “Swiss made”. Also there are some good watches coming out of Hong Kong like undone.
I have a Phoibos. They come from a young couple in Hong Kong and I love it.
That bracelet is freaking amazing, brilliant
I have a couple Undone watches. Nice designs and well made.
I think this is an unfair comparison. Japan didn't steal technology and produce clones? And I think there are there small chances that innovations will come out of CCP-controlled China. Japan developed into a free political and economical state after WW2.
I agree with everyone here. Can't wait for this thread to get buried
I thought this was gonna be a completely different post, thank the maker it wasn't. I dig that band, unless of course in a year or two it falls apart.
China has been "close" for a long time. I'm more surprised by the lack of progress.
They have the technology and the means, but they either lack in design, or they don't see it as a market they want to compete in.
While companies like Sea-Gull, San Martin, CIGA and others make great, high quality watches, the one thing they absolutely do not do is innovate (CIGA does innovate in aesthetic design, but not mechanical). Japan on the other hand has always innovated. From Seiko’s humble beginning in the 1880s (and everything they’ve literally invented), to Casio creating the most ubiquitous watch on the planet with the F-91W, to Citizen‘s pioneering use and development of solar tech and more. No Chinese watch brand has even come close to any of this yet and they still have a lot of catching up to do.
It's a hugely complex and divisive subject China,I remember as kid in the 70s my dad going on about jap c##p,meaning cheap,and cheaper than US or European products and a lot of copies of US and European goods. But I always remember one my dads mates getting a datsun and my old man calling it jap c##p,but as dave said to my dad, it starts every time,it's got electric windows,tinted glass, sunroof,5 speed box,doesn't overheat,better brakes etc,now ok the bodywork rotted, but no cars were designed to be covered in wet salt as is applied to our roads. So now to the present day, yes China makes a lot of rubbish well what do expect for less than £50,but it also makes a lot of very high quality stuff,I bet a good proportion of our high quality horological masterpieces have chinese components in them and not just for watches either. As for designs yes there's lots of blatant copies and even more grey area homages, and as for original designs,well there's very few originals out there,oh there's a lot that sport stars and actors wear but I wouldn't pay £45000 for one or even £45 no matter where its made Switzerland or Shanghai. Its a dominant player in the world of manufacturing and it wouldn't have achieved that without cohesive state control,in its defence it has taken 100s of millions of people out of poverty in a short space of time, but it has got a social cost,certainly a lack of freedoms (and oppression ) as well as the obvious environmental costs. I'm sure in the near future (and now) their watches ,well some of them will be regarded as up there with the best with what the west has to offer in the case of design and quality,rather than price n quantity. I'm certainly interested in some of their movements especiall the pt500,I know its a clone type ,but there again most movement are clones of a couple of 60s designs,if there's money and kudos the Chinese will be there. I'm no Chinese apologist,or a Beijing controlled troll, I know their faults(many)and their strengths (many), it is an unfolding story that will fascinate,delight,dismay,horrify us all in the years to come both horologically and societylogically. A bit of a long winded one and I think I did this subject a few weeks ago so apologies.
Having had a few visits to China and lived in Japan, I’d emphasize that the places, people and cultures are polar opposites of each other. I won’t elaborate on all of those, but in terms of design and tech generally the Chinese copy and Japanese innovate.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2020/07/07/china-theft-of-us-information-ip-one-of-largest-wealth-transfers-in-history-fbi-chief/amp/
So a similar trajectory for their watches seems improbable