Perspective on the spring drive movement
I have been a long time admirer of the spring drive movement. Back in Feb this year, I finally added the spring drive White Birch to my collection. My new found ownership of an SD watch gets me thinking about how I can effectively describe the significance of the SD movement to non-watch people, and I recall someone describing the SD movement as a technology that combines the best of both worlds: quartz and mechnical. Specifically it combines the accuracy you get from using a quartz crystal for "time keeping", while deriving the power needed to run the watch from a main spring.
While I agree that "accuracy" is a legitimate technological advantage of quartz over a mechanical escapement, I'm less convince that there is ANY technological advantage that the mechanical world has to offer. Specifically I struggle to rationalize how there is any advantages to powering the watch with a main spring, over say, a battery paired with solar panels. I've heard to arguments like:
a. Main spring powered watches have more torque to drive heavier hands.
b. Main spring powered watches that are automatically wound is powered by YOU, so there's a "oneness" between the owner and the watch.
For me neither of these arguments fly because hands can be made lighter and there are high torque quartz movements out there. The the second argument is more just a case of romance.
So my question to the community is, do you think that the SD movement offers any technological advantage over the state of the art pre-SD (say a solar powered, thermal compensated quartz)? Or is the SD movement merely a goldberg machine, an engineering marvel to show off what Seiko can do?
I'm leaning on the later. Yet I don't think that diminishes how cool it is or its reasons for existence. But I'm curious what others think about the validity of the claim that SD movement represents a technological advantage. Thanks in advance everyone.
In 2012, I had my first career milestone and decided that I would mark the occasion with a watch. I stumbled upon the Watchuseek forum. And the rest, as they say, is history.
What about the smooth seconds hand?
Plus, marvels of engineering are just cool.
What about the smooth seconds hand?
Plus, marvels of engineering are just cool.
I find the SD movement to be exceeding cool and appealing for many reasons, including the smooth hands. So we're in agreement there.
The question isn't whether it is cool and appealing, but whether it brings any technological advantage to the table over and above the state of the art at the time of introduction?
Spring Drive is the equivalent of equipping this...
with this...
Pretty cool, precisely because it's idiotic! And I say this as the proud owner of 3 Spring Drive GS'es that I love to death!
In 1967 the predecessor to your spring drive beat all mechanical watch movements in accuracy making it historically significant. For me, that is enough reason to allot a permanent spot in my collection for one.
If your watch stops, you can restart it in seconds with a few twists of the crown or a few twists of the wrist. You do not need to open the back and replace the battery like you do with quartz. Spinning wheels and turning gears that actually work to tell time and more are the soul of a wrist watch. If you can't feel that soul, you might as well sell your collection of watches and buy an Apple Watch which is perhaps the most accurate time keeper and sophisticated piece of consumer electronics made. It just doesn't have a soul.
I find the SD movement to be exceeding cool and appealing for many reasons, including the smooth hands. So we're in agreement there.
The question isn't whether it is cool and appealing, but whether it brings any technological advantage to the table over and above the state of the art at the time of introduction?
I don't believe every new piece of technology has to justify its existence with specific calculable advantages over anything else. Sometimes one innovation can lead to others in unexpected ways. The watch world is full of unnecessary displays of artistic expression, or ostentatious opulence. Why not unnecessary displays of engineering prowess? After all, why aren't we all just wearing a Casio F91W?
Simple answer: yes. In addition to SD being more accurate than a typical quartz watch, typical quartz watches still require a capacitor and/or battery to hold a charge, and which can leak and/or die, especially with age -- my EcoDrive made it a decade before giving up the ghost. So long as the mainspring doesn't snap, its lifespan can be measured in multiple decades, making it more reliable than a battery.
And you know, when someone finally lights off that EMP taking out all of our tech in a single shot, I'll still know what time it is because my automatic watch, with its lack of circuitry, will still be ticking away. 😜
I don't believe every new piece of technology has to justify its existence with specific calculable advantages over anything else. Sometimes one innovation can lead to others in unexpected ways. The watch world is full of unnecessary displays of artistic expression, or ostentatious opulence. Why not unnecessary displays of engineering prowess? After all, why aren't we all just wearing a Casio F91W?
Agreed.
My question was never meant to imply the position that SD's existence need to be justified. Afterall, I was enamored enough by it to put my money toward the purchase of one. I'm a fan.
Simple answer: yes. In addition to SD being more accurate than a typical quartz watch, typical quartz watches still require a capacitor and/or battery to hold a charge, and which can leak and/or die, especially with age -- my EcoDrive made it a decade before giving up the ghost. So long as the mainspring doesn't snap, its lifespan can be measured in multiple decades, making it more reliable than a battery.
And you know, when someone finally lights off that EMP taking out all of our tech in a single shot, I'll still know what time it is because my automatic watch, with its lack of circuitry, will still be ticking away. 😜
Longivity without needing a service is potentially a good one. I suspect you're right. Would be curious to see some data from SD owners.
Its a marvel, and it is proprietary so Seiko has the exclusivity.
Let's not forget the elephant in the room- the unknown service related issues on these. Nobody has really talked about it but last I heard you have to send your spring drive back to Japan for service. Yes its Seiko and ultra reliable, but all things mechanical eventually need service.
If there’s one thing getting into mechanical watches has given me, it’s an appreciation of plain old quartz. Doesn’t stop me wanting something with a Spring Drive though :-).
I’d define it more as an amazing horological achievement rather than an advancement in accurate time-keeping. The value is primarily aesthetic - there’s just something incredibly cool about a mechanically powered movement with quartz accuracy. With perfectly accurate time-keeping available from an iPhone or apple watch, you could argue that any innovation in mechanical watches is inherently “pointless“ but it’s kind of comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges.
Spring drive is just a nice quartz with a wind up spring to turn gears. Its a hybrid part that could be replaced with a little battery. The real good thing about GS is their dials and hands. A better movement would be an ETA quartz with lots of jewels and just as accurate within a few seconds. The GS quartz parts won't last any longer than any other quartz. Electronics are like that.
I’d define it more as an amazing horological achievement rather than an advancement in accurate time-keeping. The value is primarily aesthetic - there’s just something incredibly cool about a mechanically powered movement with quartz accuracy. With perfectly accurate time-keeping available from an iPhone or apple watch, you could argue that any innovation in mechanical watches is inherently “pointless“ but it’s kind of comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges.
I tend to agree.
What about the smooth seconds hand?
Plus, marvels of engineering are just cool.
Agree.
I think that's a big part of the appeal of watches with SD, bulova accutron tuning fork movement, electrostatic system (accutron dna and spaceview 2020), as well as the handful of other smooth seconds hand watch options.
I have often called Spring Drive a Rube Goldberg Machine. More than that, I think it brings the worst of both worlds, not the best.
it’s a quartz regulated watch. Yet it will require a full mechanical service just like any other mechanical watch. The oil in its gears and pinions will dry up and start grinding away at the jewels if it doesn’t get a regular mechanical service. This is more complex and expensive than a simple quartz watch and a solar watch will likely be more service friendly than either.
But it’s also a mechanical watch. Added to the already complex mechanical system, they have added the additional complexity of a mini electrical generator, integrated circuit and electromagnetic brake. Good modern mechanical watches can achieve remarkable accuracy, some even zero spd over time without this additional computer control. All the added complexity brings no advantage in accuracy over a traditional HAQ watch and minimal improvement over a quality mechanical. The intangible draw of a mechanical watch is the beating heart, the escapement, which is a technological marvel in itself, albeit ancient. All the digital complexity of Spring Drive is simply to replace this beating heart with a computer controlled EM brake. The smooth sweep is a side effect of the tech, not a purpose.
Even if you love Spring Drive, I implore you not to buy a 10 year old example unless you have proof of recent service. The computer will maintain its accuracy even as the gears, pinions and jewels are grinding themselves into oblivion. In short, yes, it will be accurate until it self destructs into a throw away watch. The computer will ensure that. When you see an old Spring Drive for sale unserviced, it’s probably because the seller wants to transfer the service requirement and cost to you.
My solar watches have gradually died as the batteries don’t hold charge as well over time. I’ve broken mechanical watches (my gorgeous old Seiko with blue fume dial 😢) with my rough and tumble hobbies.
For myself: I love the design and engineering brilliance of creating the SD.
The beautifully smooth sweep flows as time actually flows, not in staccato ticks.
The fact it’s a more robust movement that is less prone to damage from getting banged around (unlike an exquisitely tuned balance wheel and escapement)
I love / loved all of my watches: several mechanical (2 died), 2 solar (1 dead battery, 1 is now weak) 1 digital Garmin ..and one spring drive. Wish I had the budget for a few more spring drives!
Simple answer: yes. In addition to SD being more accurate than a typical quartz watch, typical quartz watches still require a capacitor and/or battery to hold a charge, and which can leak and/or die, especially with age -- my EcoDrive made it a decade before giving up the ghost. So long as the mainspring doesn't snap, its lifespan can be measured in multiple decades, making it more reliable than a battery.
And you know, when someone finally lights off that EMP taking out all of our tech in a single shot, I'll still know what time it is because my automatic watch, with its lack of circuitry, will still be ticking away. 😜
EMP ~ electro magnetic pulse
I’m not an engineer - but a magnetic pulse that fries things that can be magnetized sounds bad for all watches, including mechanical.
(Just ordered a de magnetizer as I’ve found a bunch of my straps have quite magnetic quick set pins )
My solar watches have gradually died as the batteries don’t hold charge as well over time. I’ve broken mechanical watches (my gorgeous old Seiko with blue fume dial 😢) with my rough and tumble hobbies.
For myself: I love the design and engineering brilliance of creating the SD.
The beautifully smooth sweep flows as time actually flows, not in staccato ticks.
The fact it’s a more robust movement that is less prone to damage from getting banged around (unlike an exquisitely tuned balance wheel and escapement)
I love / loved all of my watches: several mechanical (2 died), 2 solar (1 dead battery, 1 is now weak) 1 digital Garmin ..and one spring drive. Wish I had the budget for a few more spring drives!
Any even moderately priced Swiss watch will last a lifetime or more with service. Few watches with electronics last very long unless you count the very few resurrections some of the guys here do. The good thing about the GS is that it's too expensive to throw away and will need parts when it dies as long as they still make them. Batteries are part of maintenance for the quartz and are too cheap to complain about them.
High-end watches are exclusivity machines more or less. This can be accomplished in a number of ways, either through the complexity of the movement, workmanship, innovation, or other means. The smooth seconds hand of an SD is cool. But you are not making the watch any simpler, it still has plenty of lubrication points that will require service. But I believe that is not really the point. SD simply provides a form of differentiation.
I just got my first Spring Drive last week (GS. Winter)... I plan to get it serviced as required. I have confidence that Seiko will be able to repair / replace parts for a long, long time to come. I'm not worried..And, I plan to enjoy the hell out of it and the smooth sweep.
Spring Drive is the equivalent of equipping this...
with this...
Pretty cool, precisely because it's idiotic! And I say this as the proud owner of 3 Spring Drive GS'es that I love to death!
You beat me to the punch with this! Great analogy. I think I like Spring Drives partly BECAUSE they are Rube Goldberg machines. Me, at dinner tonight:
There is no battery in the GS, and none to change out. so no chance of a leak to ruin the watch itself. no need for spare parts.
quartz may be more accurate but knowing you are wearing a piece of extremely high tech mechanical. think about what goes into actually making the thing as opposed to a quartz chip, then how it will work long after you are gone.