Micro Tournament Round 2 Day 4: Lorier Vs. Orion
Rules:
• Voting is based on the overall brand, not the individual model or sample photo.
• There are no rules on how you should choose, but you are welcome to civilly debate quality, value, heritage, etc.
• Voters are encouraged to look at the hashtags for threads on individual brands or visit their sites.
• Poll closes apx 11PM ET 3/25.
• Be respectful of all the brands and members, even if the vote does not go your way. This is meant to be lighthearted fun to raise awareness of 64 microbrands.
•Ties will go to the brand with the most unique user-owned photos of their watch on this thread.
Good luck and have fun! All posts and results will be tracked under #microtournament
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Watch enthusiast who insists on the next watch being the last.
Northeast, US
Member since
Last active: 1 min ago
6.50” / 16.51 cm
Check Out The Lineups Here:
Lorier
Orion
Get daily updates and see the updated bracket here.
Whew boy, gonna be a tough one. Best of luck to both.
Prolly going to come down to one's feelings about acrylic tbh.
My guess, will be quite a lot of talk about the "if" they had sapphire lol.
But I digress.
The Hellcat is a stunner of a watch, as is the Field Standard. And I love the American made dials on the tesseract.
Both utilize true no date movements where applicable, which is just 🤌🏻. More microbrands need to be doing this.
Owners of both have good reputation as listening to feedback and addressing issues.
I can only speak for Lorenzo and Lauren, but top notch. And everything I've heard about Orion is the same.
But for me, I'll go with Lorier. That acrylic choice is mainly why.
For my uses, and in my experience it works as good or better than sapphire, while being naturally less reflective. And it's just easier to wipe off.
Added bonus, the other zombie brand...
In house regulated, shock protected/resistant movement holder, roulette date, countdown bezel... Douglas Skindiver II...also #acrylic
@AllTheWatches Wolbrook/Douglas count as a micro next year?
They won't do well since I don't see them much, but getting the word out is needed. New owners are doing good things, and make a solid watch for the money..heritage of course with the Worldtimer.
Added bonus, the other zombie brand...
In house regulated, shock protected/resistant movement holder, roulette date, countdown bezel... Douglas Skindiver II...also #acrylic
@AllTheWatches Wolbrook/Douglas count as a micro next year?
They won't do well since I don't see them much, but getting the word out is needed. New owners are doing good things, and make a solid watch for the money..heritage of course with the Worldtimer.
If we do it it, there will be A LOT of new blood in the mix.
Better closeups on the engravings, they are hard to capture on the pixel camera....and it will take forever to get my Yashica prints back 😆.
This way if any do pay the extra $35, you have an idea.
First world problems, don't have a digital right now.....waiting for that 100VI goodness, my other, other VASTLY pricier hobby 😆😂. IFYKYK.
Top to bottom: Neptune SIII, Falcon SIII, Hydra SIII
Calamity > Neptune. That is all
Calamity > Neptune. That is all
Valid.
Almost jumped on a used one I saw crop up for sale during the tail end of COVID. I hesitated, and it was gone.
My hesitation, and this is the same hesitation I have for many, many, many fine tool watches, from the Erebus Origin to Tudor BB/Pelly's, divers to field: Why no drilled lugs? YMMV of course...
And let's be honest I still might end up with one eventually, after some other things, slap some Marathon Shoulderless in, and literally have the next best thing to fixed bars 😜.
This is tough. I like them both. I don't yet have a Lorier. I really want the Astra. I have the Hellcat and love it.
This is tough. I like them both. I don't yet have a Lorier. I really want the Astra. I have the Hellcat and love it.
Agreed.
Even with the no drilled lugs, love that oauedo sector dial, minute track and the burgundy....🤌🏻
My wallet would be in trouble if Orion ever did a run with acrylic and drilled lugs. But it would in no way be cost effective since outside of onsie, twosie buyers, they'd have stock just sitting around.
And by the time it released I might not be able to to execute lol.
I have a Calamity Meteorite and it's hands down my favorite watch. I think they make a much finer and quality product, with more attention to detail than Lorier.
Lorier because of the design choices in their catalog.
Even though I am always a little annoyed when I check out a brand and there are no watches for sale, #lorier still gets my vote, based on really nice design and build choices. Just wish I could actually purchase a Hyperion Skyward.
Agreed.
Even with the no drilled lugs, love that oauedo sector dial, minute track and the burgundy....🤌🏻
My wallet would be in trouble if Orion ever did a run with acrylic and drilled lugs. But it would in no way be cost effective since outside of onsie, twosie buyers, they'd have stock just sitting around.
And by the time it released I might not be able to to execute lol.
Oh, an Orion with acrylic? Yeah. That would be hard to pass up. As for color, I first wanted the burgundy, but the black dial was the only version with the bead blasted finish. There's a polished chamfer around the edge of the case. The bracelet is also bead blasted with high polish between the links. I've never seen one like it. So I went with black.
Even though I am always a little annoyed when I check out a brand and there are no watches for sale, #lorier still gets my vote, based on really nice design and build choices. Just wish I could actually purchase a Hyperion Skyward.
Yup.
Valid negative. And I actually considered this into my decision. Even with Lorier getting restocks every 3-4 months regularly, it still sucks you can't just go buy one.
Also sucks these two went head to head. Came down to my personal preference for a feature one has.
That Hellcat and/or Field Standard from Orion are 🔥. And will be picking one up at some point.
And if someone was wanting a Hamilton Khaki Field look, I'd totally recommend and/or argue the Field Standard should be considered as a better choice. YMMV.
Hey guys, no drilled lugs for a couple reasons. The first being it would go through the polished bevel on the lug and the second being it would compromise the integrity of the lug because of thinness. Some design choices have trade offs, thanks again for the support
I don’t think so, I can see how it can be a fun vintage throwback material but when compared to sapphire I feel that it’s an inferior material that leads to more issues than it solves. I am kind of surprised that people seem to like it so much. To me it feels cheap and I can’t stand how it attracts scratches/oxidizes/ages. Certainly has a warm charm to it when it’s fresh and polished, but once it starts getting worn it’s such a bummer. Though, I bet the hellcat case would be easy to install acrylic into if it’s something people really like.
I understand. Functionally it is 100% inferior but a lot of people like the visual distortions and vintage vibes.
I don’t think so, I can see how it can be a fun vintage throwback material but when compared to sapphire I feel that it’s an inferior material that leads to more issues than it solves. I am kind of surprised that people seem to like it so much. To me it feels cheap and I can’t stand how it attracts scratches/oxidizes/ages. Certainly has a warm charm to it when it’s fresh and polished, but once it starts getting worn it’s such a bummer. Though, I bet the hellcat case would be easy to install acrylic into if it’s something people really like.
YMMV though.
BLUFF: I acknowledge I am a niche end user and I wear a good chunk of my watches daily, and I wear them hard.
Day in, day out I'll take less prone to shatter/chip, moderately easier to clean viscous fluids off, and less reflectivity.
Does that mean I get scratches, yes. Once my dial gets to the point that it is truly untradable, I'll Polywatch it.
Should a watch I am wearing have sapphire, and it happens to catch the edge of a concrete cinder block, VTAC barricade, whatever, directly to the crystal it has a chance of chipping. Meaning I need a new crystal.
This also doesn't mean a Hesalite/acrylic wouldn't also crack/break, but due to the benefits of a plastic based crystal, it's less likely too.
Much like sapphire is less likely to scratch due to it's MOH.
The wiping clean thing is just a personal observation. Seems like my sapphire glasses stuff need running water or a lens wipe sometimes to get smudges off.
The acrylic just needs a clean-ish cloth.
On the reflective front, if I'm truly concerned, I'll throw a cut off tube sock over the watch, or a kill flash device.
Mainly just through regular wear, I've found most of my sapphire seem to reflect an almost perfect dial sized glare. Whereas the acrylic based have more of a reflection from the metal, indices, etc.
Not scientific, just an observation. And all watches still reflect TBH.
I also don't have any luxury watches, but my Holton Pro, Sector Deep, various Helm's and other sapphire tool watches have similar properties.
Hey guys, no drilled lugs for a couple reasons. The first being it would go through the polished bevel on the lug and the second being it would compromise the integrity of the lug because of thinness. Some design choices have trade offs, thanks again for the support
No complaints here. Except the pin and collar system, which, I know, you didn't create. I've never seen another bracelet like it.
I understand. Functionally it is 100% inferior but a lot of people like the visual distortions and vintage vibes.
YMMV. See other post.
This is acrylic before a rather long, fun filled day of simunition/force on force training that incorporated room clearing, breaching, all kinds of positional shooting, buddy carries, simulated combat life saver, etc.
Second pic is today 6 days later. Picked up only two new "scratches", far as I can tell. Maybe a few swirls too. Not bad for all the afore mentioned activities. And if you've ever worked and run training when wearing full kit (rifle, secondary, helmet, plate carrier, etc) the there's a lot of stuff to rub/scratch/ding against.
Third and fourth pic is to show it doesn't affect readability, at least to me.
I also find it ironic, that the almost universally recommended "beater" watch, the basic edition Casio G Shock's use mineral glass.
Which is technically worse than acrylic because it's hard to buff, and less than sapphire because it isn't as scratch proof.
Somehow they get a pass, and Orient, Seiko and others are pretty much put on blast for not using sapphire.
And as far as what watches I use daily, and to head off the usual, just get a G Shock. I have, and use my issued digitals. But they come with drawbacks too.
And the Casio Protrek line is better anyway...👀🤏🏻😂😜🤙🏻.
YMMV though.
BLUFF: I acknowledge I am a niche end user and I wear a good chunk of my watches daily, and I wear them hard.
Day in, day out I'll take less prone to shatter/chip, moderately easier to clean viscous fluids off, and less reflectivity.
Does that mean I get scratches, yes. Once my dial gets to the point that it is truly untradable, I'll Polywatch it.
Should a watch I am wearing have sapphire, and it happens to catch the edge of a concrete cinder block, VTAC barricade, whatever, directly to the crystal it has a chance of chipping. Meaning I need a new crystal.
This also doesn't mean a Hesalite/acrylic wouldn't also crack/break, but due to the benefits of a plastic based crystal, it's less likely too.
Much like sapphire is less likely to scratch due to it's MOH.
The wiping clean thing is just a personal observation. Seems like my sapphire glasses stuff need running water or a lens wipe sometimes to get smudges off.
The acrylic just needs a clean-ish cloth.
On the reflective front, if I'm truly concerned, I'll throw a cut off tube sock over the watch, or a kill flash device.
Mainly just through regular wear, I've found most of my sapphire seem to reflect an almost perfect dial sized glare. Whereas the acrylic based have more of a reflection from the metal, indices, etc.
Not scientific, just an observation. And all watches still reflect TBH.
I also don't have any luxury watches, but my Holton Pro, Sector Deep, various Helm's and other sapphire tool watches have similar properties.
Also worth looking at a brand perspective. Over 1000 watches with sapphire and I can safely say that I’ve had no customer report a broken crystal and single digit reports of any sort of meaningful chips (a lot are material transfer from an impact that just needs determined cleaning). Since I’m also a watchmaker I do handle a lot of acrylic as well. Like replacing Rolex crystals. These crystals often hold up in theoretical discussions like we’re having but in reality, they do not absorb glancing or direct blows better than sapphire (unless the sapphire is 1mm or less thick, then I’d avoid at all cost). I’ve had more people have issues with acrylic crystals from service jobs than my sapphire crystals sold - and I’ve sold an order of magnitude more watches than I’ve serviced with acrylic. So statistically, that’s not a great endorsement or encouraging for me to adopt. Acrylic cracks, shatters and will accrue scratches (micro scratches) from dry skin on your fingers. It’s also prone to oxidation from the environment around us and chemicals we’re exposed to regularly, shortening it’s lifespan further.
So as a brand, I see lots of people filing complaints with damaged acrylic, I see needing to stock a surplus of crystals and becoming a service point for crystal replacement and polishing, and long term I see a product that invariably doesn’t age as well. I do see the merit of acrylic coming in fun shapes and the vintage warmth, but for me, the pros end there and the rest of the characteristics of acrylic fall into liability category. A thick chunk of sapphire will be more durable than most acrylic. A thin slice of sapphire (~1mm or less) can shatter in a pressure tester. Acrylic is a bit fussy, a magnet for scratches and just not reliable enough to feel compelled to use it.
Sapphire crystals properties can really depend on how it’s executed, crystals with hard angles and edges will be more prone to chips. Thin crystals will be more prone to breakage. On the Orion 1 I used a 3.5mm sapphire, single dome shape, and it was nearly indestructible. I remember a customer was on a worksite and he fell and his watch got mashed between concrete and something hard. The bezel had gotten deformed to the point it was no longer waterproof but the crystal was virtually untouched, a sand grain sized chip maybe. Compare that to a Rolex box sapphire with those corners sticking up - 9/10 that come in for service will have chips along the edge. Then look at a Hamilton khaki, 1mm or thinner for the crystal. If that flexes at all, it shatters. Seiko Alpinist has a monstrous 4mm slab of sapphire, truly fitting for a field watch, it would be impressive if someone shattered that. Reflection is also contingent on shape and AR used, quality of AR, color and layers. If done poorly, it can certainly be a nuisance of a glare machine - acrylic wins there.
Though, I do invite you to buy a brand new acrylic crystal and a loupe. Drag your finger or your cleaning cloth over it and check it, it’s now scratched. It’s also very normal in watchmaking for acrylic crystals to crack on installation and removal, just by virtue of their tolerance variation or hardening/becoming brittle from oxidation. Needless to say, you can see I have some experience being annoyed by acrylic crystals and producing a watch with that material seems like it would be inviting a lot more of the stuff I don’t enjoy into my life. It may be more fun if I wasn’t the one that had to deal with it though 🤪
Also worth looking at a brand perspective. Over 1000 watches with sapphire and I can safely say that I’ve had no customer report a broken crystal and single digit reports of any sort of meaningful chips (a lot are material transfer from an impact that just needs determined cleaning). Since I’m also a watchmaker I do handle a lot of acrylic as well. Like replacing Rolex crystals. These crystals often hold up in theoretical discussions like we’re having but in reality, they do not absorb glancing or direct blows better than sapphire (unless the sapphire is 1mm or less thick, then I’d avoid at all cost). I’ve had more people have issues with acrylic crystals from service jobs than my sapphire crystals sold - and I’ve sold an order of magnitude more watches than I’ve serviced with acrylic. So statistically, that’s not a great endorsement or encouraging for me to adopt. Acrylic cracks, shatters and will accrue scratches (micro scratches) from dry skin on your fingers. It’s also prone to oxidation from the environment around us and chemicals we’re exposed to regularly, shortening it’s lifespan further.
So as a brand, I see lots of people filing complaints with damaged acrylic, I see needing to stock a surplus of crystals and becoming a service point for crystal replacement and polishing, and long term I see a product that invariably doesn’t age as well. I do see the merit of acrylic coming in fun shapes and the vintage warmth, but for me, the pros end there and the rest of the characteristics of acrylic fall into liability category. A thick chunk of sapphire will be more durable than most acrylic. A thin slice of sapphire (~1mm or less) can shatter in a pressure tester. Acrylic is a bit fussy, a magnet for scratches and just not reliable enough to feel compelled to use it.
Sapphire crystals properties can really depend on how it’s executed, crystals with hard angles and edges will be more prone to chips. Thin crystals will be more prone to breakage. On the Orion 1 I used a 3.5mm sapphire, single dome shape, and it was nearly indestructible. I remember a customer was on a worksite and he fell and his watch got mashed between concrete and something hard. The bezel had gotten deformed to the point it was no longer waterproof but the crystal was virtually untouched, a sand grain sized chip maybe. Compare that to a Rolex box sapphire with those corners sticking up - 9/10 that come in for service will have chips along the edge. Then look at a Hamilton khaki, 1mm or thinner for the crystal. If that flexes at all, it shatters. Seiko Alpinist has a monstrous 4mm slab of sapphire, truly fitting for a field watch, it would be impressive if someone shattered that. Reflection is also contingent on shape and AR used, quality of AR, color and layers. If done poorly, it can certainly be a nuisance of a glare machine - acrylic wins there.
Though, I do invite you to buy a brand new acrylic crystal and a loupe. Drag your finger or your cleaning cloth over it and check it, it’s now scratched. It’s also very normal in watchmaking for acrylic crystals to crack on installation and removal, just by virtue of their tolerance variation or hardening/becoming brittle from oxidation. Needless to say, you can see I have some experience being annoyed by acrylic crystals and producing a watch with that material seems like it would be inviting a lot more of the stuff I don’t enjoy into my life. It may be more fun if I wasn’t the one that had to deal with it though 🤪
Agreed.
And I'm a sample of one. Plus when I break them, I send them off.
And to be fair, the only chips I've experienced have been from a watch with a rather large, exposed sapphire. Hence why it isn't worn as much once it was fixed.
Also why one should prolly put some thought behind daily choice of a watch BEFORE knowingly running some flat range barricade work in a Bulova Lunar Pilot. 😭
Also worth looking at a brand perspective. Over 1000 watches with sapphire and I can safely say that I’ve had no customer report a broken crystal and single digit reports of any sort of meaningful chips (a lot are material transfer from an impact that just needs determined cleaning). Since I’m also a watchmaker I do handle a lot of acrylic as well. Like replacing Rolex crystals. These crystals often hold up in theoretical discussions like we’re having but in reality, they do not absorb glancing or direct blows better than sapphire (unless the sapphire is 1mm or less thick, then I’d avoid at all cost). I’ve had more people have issues with acrylic crystals from service jobs than my sapphire crystals sold - and I’ve sold an order of magnitude more watches than I’ve serviced with acrylic. So statistically, that’s not a great endorsement or encouraging for me to adopt. Acrylic cracks, shatters and will accrue scratches (micro scratches) from dry skin on your fingers. It’s also prone to oxidation from the environment around us and chemicals we’re exposed to regularly, shortening it’s lifespan further.
So as a brand, I see lots of people filing complaints with damaged acrylic, I see needing to stock a surplus of crystals and becoming a service point for crystal replacement and polishing, and long term I see a product that invariably doesn’t age as well. I do see the merit of acrylic coming in fun shapes and the vintage warmth, but for me, the pros end there and the rest of the characteristics of acrylic fall into liability category. A thick chunk of sapphire will be more durable than most acrylic. A thin slice of sapphire (~1mm or less) can shatter in a pressure tester. Acrylic is a bit fussy, a magnet for scratches and just not reliable enough to feel compelled to use it.
Sapphire crystals properties can really depend on how it’s executed, crystals with hard angles and edges will be more prone to chips. Thin crystals will be more prone to breakage. On the Orion 1 I used a 3.5mm sapphire, single dome shape, and it was nearly indestructible. I remember a customer was on a worksite and he fell and his watch got mashed between concrete and something hard. The bezel had gotten deformed to the point it was no longer waterproof but the crystal was virtually untouched, a sand grain sized chip maybe. Compare that to a Rolex box sapphire with those corners sticking up - 9/10 that come in for service will have chips along the edge. Then look at a Hamilton khaki, 1mm or thinner for the crystal. If that flexes at all, it shatters. Seiko Alpinist has a monstrous 4mm slab of sapphire, truly fitting for a field watch, it would be impressive if someone shattered that. Reflection is also contingent on shape and AR used, quality of AR, color and layers. If done poorly, it can certainly be a nuisance of a glare machine - acrylic wins there.
Though, I do invite you to buy a brand new acrylic crystal and a loupe. Drag your finger or your cleaning cloth over it and check it, it’s now scratched. It’s also very normal in watchmaking for acrylic crystals to crack on installation and removal, just by virtue of their tolerance variation or hardening/becoming brittle from oxidation. Needless to say, you can see I have some experience being annoyed by acrylic crystals and producing a watch with that material seems like it would be inviting a lot more of the stuff I don’t enjoy into my life. It may be more fun if I wasn’t the one that had to deal with it though 🤪
For what it's worth too, I have my eyes on y'all 👀🤏🏻🤙🏻👌🏻.
Love engaging with owners and over the years have turned into a micro enthusiast more than a watch enthusiast.
Been a busy few years with all the releases and this year already have obligated my pocket monies to some stuff from Sangin Instruments.
But DEF see me picking up a Hellcat or Field Standard at some point.
This is a tough. I don't have any experience hands on with an Orion. But I've heard good things and the dial on the Tesseract is just some next level goodness.
But as a proud of now two Loriers, an oh so classy Zephyr and literally just received the Cosmic Blue Astra this last Friday, I can say Lorier is pure class. They have a great eye and way of drawing inspiration while creating something new. The comfort of the bracelet lives up to the reputation.
I'd like to look into Orion some more but for me this round goes to Lorier acrylic or not (actually the Zephyr does use sapphire).
Also worth looking at a brand perspective. Over 1000 watches with sapphire and I can safely say that I’ve had no customer report a broken crystal and single digit reports of any sort of meaningful chips (a lot are material transfer from an impact that just needs determined cleaning). Since I’m also a watchmaker I do handle a lot of acrylic as well. Like replacing Rolex crystals. These crystals often hold up in theoretical discussions like we’re having but in reality, they do not absorb glancing or direct blows better than sapphire (unless the sapphire is 1mm or less thick, then I’d avoid at all cost). I’ve had more people have issues with acrylic crystals from service jobs than my sapphire crystals sold - and I’ve sold an order of magnitude more watches than I’ve serviced with acrylic. So statistically, that’s not a great endorsement or encouraging for me to adopt. Acrylic cracks, shatters and will accrue scratches (micro scratches) from dry skin on your fingers. It’s also prone to oxidation from the environment around us and chemicals we’re exposed to regularly, shortening it’s lifespan further.
So as a brand, I see lots of people filing complaints with damaged acrylic, I see needing to stock a surplus of crystals and becoming a service point for crystal replacement and polishing, and long term I see a product that invariably doesn’t age as well. I do see the merit of acrylic coming in fun shapes and the vintage warmth, but for me, the pros end there and the rest of the characteristics of acrylic fall into liability category. A thick chunk of sapphire will be more durable than most acrylic. A thin slice of sapphire (~1mm or less) can shatter in a pressure tester. Acrylic is a bit fussy, a magnet for scratches and just not reliable enough to feel compelled to use it.
Sapphire crystals properties can really depend on how it’s executed, crystals with hard angles and edges will be more prone to chips. Thin crystals will be more prone to breakage. On the Orion 1 I used a 3.5mm sapphire, single dome shape, and it was nearly indestructible. I remember a customer was on a worksite and he fell and his watch got mashed between concrete and something hard. The bezel had gotten deformed to the point it was no longer waterproof but the crystal was virtually untouched, a sand grain sized chip maybe. Compare that to a Rolex box sapphire with those corners sticking up - 9/10 that come in for service will have chips along the edge. Then look at a Hamilton khaki, 1mm or thinner for the crystal. If that flexes at all, it shatters. Seiko Alpinist has a monstrous 4mm slab of sapphire, truly fitting for a field watch, it would be impressive if someone shattered that. Reflection is also contingent on shape and AR used, quality of AR, color and layers. If done poorly, it can certainly be a nuisance of a glare machine - acrylic wins there.
Though, I do invite you to buy a brand new acrylic crystal and a loupe. Drag your finger or your cleaning cloth over it and check it, it’s now scratched. It’s also very normal in watchmaking for acrylic crystals to crack on installation and removal, just by virtue of their tolerance variation or hardening/becoming brittle from oxidation. Needless to say, you can see I have some experience being annoyed by acrylic crystals and producing a watch with that material seems like it would be inviting a lot more of the stuff I don’t enjoy into my life. It may be more fun if I wasn’t the one that had to deal with it though 🤪
Thanks for that write up. Really appreciate the details and the engagement from people like you on the other side of this obsessio.. I mean hobby. 🤝
Thanks for that write up. Really appreciate the details and the engagement from people like you on the other side of this obsessio.. I mean hobby. 🤝
I think passion is the polite word 🤣🤣🤣
For me my vote went to #lorier because even though I don’t like the Hydra, I think that their designs especially the Neptune and falcon are really really cool! I love that they make really great vintage inspired watches without trying too hard to make the watch look exactly like the inspiration. #lorier wins this round for me.
No complaints here. Except the pin and collar system, which, I know, you didn't create. I've never seen another bracelet like it.
While pin & collar is a bit harder to deal with than screws or pins, you only have to do it once, and it wont work itself out of the hole. More more secure.
My beef with the Orion bracelet is the unnecessary divers extension that only leaves room for 3 micro-adjust.
For what it's worth too, I have my eyes on y'all 👀🤏🏻🤙🏻👌🏻.
Love engaging with owners and over the years have turned into a micro enthusiast more than a watch enthusiast.
Been a busy few years with all the releases and this year already have obligated my pocket monies to some stuff from Sangin Instruments.
But DEF see me picking up a Hellcat or Field Standard at some point.
I have both- no wrong choice.
Poll closed for this matchup. Congratulations to Lorier!