Why Can't All Date Windows be Level?
There is much hate for the 4:X0 o'clock date window. I suspect it is not so much the position but the orientation. For some reason they persist in making both the window and and the wheel markings radial.
I presume this is because, you know, using cheap stock date wheel. But the only downside I see to cocking the date numerals so they appear level, besides expense, is that they would necessarily be somewhat smaller.
With normal radial arrangement, Height is dictated by the diameter and that 360/31 = ~11.6 degrees. And width is width. It's already maximized. Printing at a different orientation isn't as orderly and efficient.
On the left we have an illustration of a section of traditional 3 o'clock date wheel, with the displayed portion in red. On the left is the same size items in the same arrangement except cocked 45 degrees for that 4:30 display in my idealized level display. It doesn't work. The same sized window doesn't fit on the wheel anymore, and the printed date fields have overlap, which would be totally unacceptable.
So the date window and numerals would necessarily be smaller to appear level in orientation at a non-cardinal point location. Is that all that is stopping this, or is it some aesthetic gripe? It doesn't seem to stop the avant-garde types like A. Lange & Sohne.
I'm babbling, but does this make sense and are there other considerations? Or is this all just a dumb idea?
Started as a quartzbro goofing on the mechanical snobs, wrote for thetruthaboutwatches.com, and lately started finding forgotten familial vintage watches in need of love.
I see it. Great explanation by the way. There are a few watches of mine that now pop in my mind that indeed utilize smaller date windows because of the ‘4X0’ phenomenon.
I know you're not much of a Sinn fan but the 556 A has a level date at 4:XX. It's tiny though 🤷♂️
Glycine has also managed it on some of their Combat Subs:
I do, however, recall some grumblings on reviewing these models that the edge of the date wheel was visible at the lower right hand corner of the date window.
I'd be fine if there wasn't a date window at all.
For me personally the position itself is the main problem, mostly in terms of how it impacts the symmetry of the dial. A date window at 4:30 doesn't bother me if it's fairly subtle and doesn't draw attention to itself, but my personal preference for the position of a date window is at the 6 o'clock position.
Thanks @robwei and @JBird7986 for these examples that show it has been done, and indeed the geometric issues are as I expected.
Thanks @robwei and @JBird7986 for these examples that show it has been done, and indeed the geometric issues are as I expected.
I have a Cartier Pasha that has the horizontal date window at 4:30, but it's a small date on a small watch, and features a "reverse cyclops" (ie-flat outer face, with magnifier on the inside) in order to allow it to be read (but it doesn't really help). One of the most useless date displays I've encountered.
I agree, having a vertical straight date window at the 4 o'clock position looks much better
I agree, having a vertical straight date window at the 4 o'clock position looks much better
Besides the issue of reading some skew number, there is also the aspect of it looking like it fell over or something.
Here's the Brew Metric version:
I know you're not much of a Sinn fan but the 556 A has a level date at 4:XX. It's tiny though 🤷♂️
This date window is why I haven’t bought a Sinn. I want this dial configuration but that tiny date window is nothing more than a pimple on an otherwise great watch.
They make this model as a no date but you have to get the coloured dials with markers. I want the version above but I can’t accept that date window.
As far as the 4:30 position, it is the easiest and most natural position to view the date with minimal twist or movement of your wrist. However, the window should be oriented radially towards your eyes for best effect. I barely have to move my wrist at all to have the date on my Bathyscaphe directly facing me.
I think the problem with 4:30 date windows is that people are judging them from photos, looking at them directly face on in a magnified image without considering the practicality of it on the wrist.
For me the problem with date complications at 04:30 is only when the window isn't on the same arc as the indices and/or when the placement isn't symmetrical. The haphazard location of the date window on the Seiko SCC Speedtimer is a primary example of how NOT to place a date complication window.
On the other hand, the placement, color and font of the date window on my Marathon MSAR is just fine. It doesn't look out of place, it's barely noticeable but it's there when I need it.
This date window is why I haven’t bought a Sinn. I want this dial configuration but that tiny date window is nothing more than a pimple on an otherwise great watch.
They make this model as a no date but you have to get the coloured dials with markers. I want the version above but I can’t accept that date window.
As far as the 4:30 position, it is the easiest and most natural position to view the date with minimal twist or movement of your wrist. However, the window should be oriented radially towards your eyes for best effect. I barely have to move my wrist at all to have the date on my Bathyscaphe directly facing me.
I think the problem with 4:30 date windows is that people are judging them from photos, looking at them directly face on in a magnified image without considering the practicality of it on the wrist.
and there we have it. Take it in consideration to the overall aesthetic and the intended use, does it achieve what it is supposed to do, as in can I glance at the watch and go, oh it’s the 25th? Where has the month gone?
It is perfectly easy to achieve a good date window, it has been done many times, the issue is whether the brand can be bothered to execute it correctly.
I can't see the date without glasses, and I don't put my glasses only to see what date is... So my question would be "Why dont they make date numbers bigger??"
I know you're not much of a Sinn fan but the 556 A has a level date at 4:XX. It's tiny though 🤷♂️
I love it at this position.
I am a bit torn whether a date at 4 or 4:30 should be level. When you casually glance at the watch to look at the date, a tilted date is typically level with your line of sight, making it a practical position for a date. That is: provided your wear the watch on the left hand, for righties it would be cumbersome. Practicality aside, it can affect the aesthetics of the watch.
I like applied indices/numerals with a framed date window to match, so that the date window does not unbalance the dial. Especially in a dress watch. I doubt that would work ok with a 4/4:30 date window, tilted or not. In this thread, I only noticed the Glycine attempting that, and not altogether successfully.