Controversial post… wait for it…
This is a long one, please try to read to end before you comment.
The Rolex Pepsi BLRO in ceramic is perfectly done. The fit and finish is top notch, the bracelet is comfortable, and the True GMT function works flawlessly. The fine details of the dial is perfect.
The red and blue ceramic bezel is stunning in how it plays with the light. The easy link bracelet is super convenient when your wrist fluctuates in size throughout the day.
The watch is averaging about -1 second a day over the past few days.
Overall, the quality is remarkable.
Now, remember how I said this post was controversial?
This Rolex is a FAKE (or replica, if you want to be kind). AKA a “super clone” that goes for about $600.
That’s right, this watch is a fake that I purchased after curiosity got the best of me, as I wait on a waitlist for the GMT “Sprite.”
I wanted to see how close it got to the original. To the eye, I see no difference.
Here are the differences and it comes down to two things.
1) The movement has a long way to go. It a cloned Rolex movement (they literally copy the entire architecture except for the balance wheel, which is the older style with the weights you move, I can’t remember what it’s called). I got lucky with the accuracy but the winding feels rough and is audible. A lot of these movements evidently come without adequate lubrication, but I can’t know for sure if it would improve. Some people, I’ve learned, will service replicas right away by an indie watchmaker. Another reason why they do this is because these watches don’t come with water resistance beyond splashes and rain. In the shower it would most likely fog up, but they CAN be “waterproofed.” As far as reliability, it’s anyone’s guess but obviously never going to be like the real thing. Some crap out quickly, some (probably very few) go ten years before needing a fix, which usually costs more than a movement swap).
2) While visually I see no difference in the watch, the jubilee feels sharp when you drag your finger across it perpendicular to the direction of it. (Left to right). The corners of the case are also sharp. This hint reveals the lack of that last bit of attention to detail.
What’s my conclusion?
I didn’t know how I’d feel about this watch and I wondered if it would be so close to the real thing that I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to buying a genuine Rolex GMT when I’m offered one.
The “ethical” arguments hold no weight, are often perpetuated by the Swiss industry for obvious reasons, and have been debunked as far as I can tell (you are not financing global terrorism by buying one ((as some would claim)) any more than you finance cartels by buying avocados. The truth of that claim is unknown, but I certainly hope it isn’t true. And you are most likely not financing a child worker operation, either, as significant skill is required to put these watches together and if you think about where iPhones are made… the ethical considerations start becoming moot).
And unless you weep for Rolex (and I do not), that also isn’t a concern, but this watch doesn’t feel special to me at all and I don’t think the existence of fakes cost Rolex a single customer.
The watch It elicits zero emotional response, even though when I look down at it, I cannot tell that it isn’t real.
While this watch can be serviced, and in theory used indefinitely, it’s not like it’s an heirloom you’d pass on to your kids, and is fundamentally not a precious item.
This replica definitely won’t stop me from buying the real thing, but I can admit it’s fun to wear. This would be even more true when you consider there are replicas of super rare watches with not only sketchy Chinese movements but in some cases reliable Miyota movements inside. I don’t think those harm anyone, but it’s up to the individual if they’d enjoy them, or not be able to get over the fact that it’s not the real deal (even if the acquiring the real deal isn’t an option). Paul Newman Daytona, Rolex Mil Sub, anyone? Sign me up. Seems no more offensive than a Steinhart…
I’m expecting a range of responses, and a lot of hate. That doesn’t phase me, say your piece. But I think this is an opportunity for a very interesting discussion.
I used to be strongly opposed to replicas/fakes, and now I am not. I personally don’t believe it’s unethical and I think it’s a form of snobbery to suggest that people who are unwilling or unable to buy expensive watches shouldn’t be able to buy a replica and enjoy a remarkable imitation of the real thing. Who am I to tell people what they can and can’t do? But it’s an interesting “philosophical” question. Would it be ethical to drive a Lamborghini clone with a Camry engine?
I think a lot of the hate comes from insecure people who realize their 10k watch (at least) was duplicated by a watch that cost probably $300 to make. But that shouldn’t stop them from enjoying their genuine watch… it wouldn’t stop me. Knowing you have the real thing will trump a clone, no matter how good they get. And I think they will only get better and genuine brands will never be able to increase the gap between their authentic watch products and fakes from China. The gap is going to continue to close…
Prrsonally, I’m still eagerly awaiting the call from my AD to buy the real thing. In the meanttime, my fake Pepsi is pretty fun. For now…
Writer, sometimes filmmaker. LA and NY. Love old stuff and mechanical things. History matters.
I got into this hobby because of a $250 Bell & Ross BR03-92 replica I bought in college. It was awesome but also pretty shoddy in quality and served as a gateway drug into buying gen pieces once I had an income that could support it.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who followed this path and I’d also imagine that Swiss manufacturers aren’t cracking down on reps and homages because they have a bit of marketing/advertising potential for the real thing.
If it helps at all the jubilee on real Rolexes have an edge rubbing the same direction and the edges of the case are pretty pointed and sharp on all of my Rolex’s soooo…. 🤷🏻♂️
If it helps at all the jubilee on real Rolexes have an edge rubbing the same direction and the edges of the case are pretty pointed and sharp on all of my Rolex’s soooo…. 🤷🏻♂️
Oh so there’s no difference in the execution if the exterior LOL. Nuts
After reading the entire post I can say that I respect your opinion on the matter and enjoy reading another persons perspectives, especially on a touchy subject. I commend you also for even posting knowing the possible judgement of others in a negative fashion. If I’m being honest the whole subject leaves me in a confused state on where I truly should stand. What I can say basic terms is this. It’s not nice to copy someone else’s work is what we all learned from grade school. But it also isn’t nice to not share with other (pricing a product out of the majorities reach). not to add another element to your conversation but this is why I have been heavily drawn to homage watches which is another raw nerve to speak on in the industry but I can 💯 say that I support an homage watch all the way. Even the super clones are priced to high that I can’t really say is affordable to all. But a Pagani Design on sale for less then $100 to have the same design language as a Rolex that someone really wants to enjoy withought selling a kidney is alright by me. This is also coming from a person who is humbly appreciative that I technically can afford a real Rolex watch today but choose not to allocate money for it. One day maybe, but for now my custom PD are more then enough cost for essentially a toy at the end of the day.
I don't even like homages so you can imagine my opinion on fakes 😅
Interesting read tho & you raise some interesting points. 👍🏻
I mostly agree here, and I don't care in the slightest what other people choose to wear. We all have individual financial circumstances, and who am I to tell people what to spend their money on, other than advice for or against a watch I already own. I've bought an homage just this week that's nowhere near as close to its original as your watch is, but I like the appearance and bought it even though I could afford far more expensive watches. I just like it.
"Controversy" aside, I just can't imagine dropping $600 just to test it out. For me that is the craziest part of the situation! 🤯
I mostly agree here, and I don't care in the slightest what other people choose to wear. We all have individual financial circumstances, and who am I to tell people what to spend their money on, other than advice for or against a watch I already own. I've bought an homage just this week that's nowhere near as close to its original as your watch is, but I like the appearance and bought it even though I could afford far more expensive watches. I just like it.
I can agree on the AFFORDABLE homage watch. That's fully reasonable and understandable.
After reading the entire post I can say that I respect your opinion on the matter and enjoy reading another persons perspectives, especially on a touchy subject. I commend you also for even posting knowing the possible judgement of others in a negative fashion. If I’m being honest the whole subject leaves me in a confused state on where I truly should stand. What I can say basic terms is this. It’s not nice to copy someone else’s work is what we all learned from grade school. But it also isn’t nice to not share with other (pricing a product out of the majorities reach). not to add another element to your conversation but this is why I have been heavily drawn to homage watches which is another raw nerve to speak on in the industry but I can 💯 say that I support an homage watch all the way. Even the super clones are priced to high that I can’t really say is affordable to all. But a Pagani Design on sale for less then $100 to have the same design language as a Rolex that someone really wants to enjoy withought selling a kidney is alright by me. This is also coming from a person who is humbly appreciative that I technically can afford a real Rolex watch today but choose not to allocate money for it. One day maybe, but for now my custom PD are more then enough cost for essentially a toy at the end of the day.
Well said
I agree wholeheartedly. High end watches are out of reach of most people so if a super clone is all that's available for them to achieve a smidgen of owning a dream watch, good on them. Your Lambo clone/fake is a great point. You can indeed get a fake lambo in kit car form, never heard anyone complain about that.
Thanks for sharing, but there is a lot of false assumptions about the quality of this replica. If you enjoy it cool, but I’m left to think about all the other better original watches I could have got for $600.
If anyone has a real Rolex, one only has to look at the rehaut in this case to know it is a replica. Nevermind thinking the movement is either well finished or has any parts close to the real thing like the parachrom hairspring.
Again, if you enjoy it, awesome, but it’s only going to fool the casual observer, but others with the real thing will spot it the moment they see it up close, including your pics. If that doesn’t bother, let your rep flag fly.
Having explored this realm myself, I knew the plot way before you dropped the bomb. The AD experience at Rolex is alone reason enough not to buy, but the fact that clones this good exist for so little compared to the gen turns me off to the brand altogether. Having had gen Rolex's and clones on the wrist has given me no difference in luster. I'll spend my money on a GS or watch in a similar niche that can't be replicated.
You spent 600 bucks on a branded fake to satisfy your curiosity?? Must be nice.
Hit the POS with a hammer.
You can buy a cheap hammer at Harbor Freight that will work as good as an expensive one.
I can agree on the AFFORDABLE homage watch. That's fully reasonable and understandable.
I don't think it matters. If someone can afford a £1000 homage/clone and they want one that's fine by me. I would probably either wait or buy a different £1000 watch, but that's just me.
Well said
Thank you Simon!
Has this been shut down?
Nope. Or not yet, at least haha. (Not that it violates any rules, here.).
I hate fakes on two levels.
1 - Steals others’ talent: I want to enjoy a watch for what it is, not what it’s pretending to be. I own watches that cost under $100 and some that cost over $5000, and love each in their own right. Each of my watches showcases the talent of those that designed and engineered it, and also the heritage / story behind the brand that made it. A fake does none of that: it steals from these talented watchmakers and offers nothing new. People wonder why fakes feel empty: it’s because they required no talent, represent no skill, and so can provide no sense of wonder.
2 - Misses the point: a watch should have meaning to its owner:
- it can mesmerise with its engineering and design
- it can evoke a place or time you’ve never experienced
- it can be a totem: embodying the intangible, helping keep memories alive.
But a watch can’t lend you status, class, style, sex appeal, or …really anything anyone gives a damn about.
The only person you “impress” by having a certain watch is you!? So having a fake watch is the pinnacle of pointless: even you aren’t impressed.
Oh, I’m impressed. I have no emotional connection to the watch, but impressed. Thanks for sharing your personal collecting philosophy, totally get it.
Because I am not a lawyer, I qualify my statements with a word like "think," because I am not completely certain.
You don't seem to have the same reservations. Is that because you are a lawyer, or a "layman" like myself? Maybe you're a lawyer, although I think if you were one you probably would've mentioned that right out of the gate.
Here is the source you provided:
And here is the definition of "traffic" from the same source:
I did not traffic in a counterfeit good when I purchased it. I simply purchased it.
So despite my "cognitive dissonance" and your incredible rudeness, again, I am going to suggest that you may not be right.
The way I see it, you are skirting the law. The Customs & Border Protection agents that could potentially intercept your incoming package don’t know whether or not you plan on selling that item to an end user or keeping it for yourself. You are opening yourself up to legal action by the govt that would then necessitate you hiring a lawyer which will cost you money and possibly a massive headache. I would not risk that happening just to try on a watch. You can do that in many other ways that don’t require you contacting a criminal organization to do so. Call a reputable grey market dealer and ask them to send you a watch so you can check it out. Most allow you to return the watch within a 7-14 day window. That would be the route I’d take if I couldn’t visit a Rolex AD that had an exhibition model to try on. When you order that “super clone” (which yours is far from BTW) you’re opening yourself up to litigation. That is not something I would consider but if you don’t care you do you. Just don’t expect to get much love from many of us here on WC. We accept homages but out right fakes are no bueno in many of our eyes.
I've been sorely tempted the last 2-3 months to buy a faked Panerai after seeing ads for a website being served to me by big brother.
I'm almost where you're at, but not quite.
The $600 is still a chunk of change that would put me further away from the one luxury watch I want. So that's my hang up. That and knowing it's not real.
I'm OK with homages because I feel like luxury watches are priced the way they are just because they can be, not because they are necessarily truly worth the price. Yes, economics, blah blah blah. I want the look of the icon, but can't afford the cost.
No one really bats an eye (that I'm aware of) when high fashion clothes are copied or emulated. Why are we -not the benefactors of homages not existing- defending the brands that keep the prices high & watches out of the hands of the masses?
Here's the problem with "clomages":
-when it's a Rolex, Tudor or Omega, we says to ourselves ,"they're a big brand, they're not gonna lose money."
-when they "clomages" affordable Seiko models( like the Willard), we say," Seiko is a mega corporation. They'll still make money"
Now, these same companies as doing microbrands such as Christopher Ward, Serica, Unimatic, Baltic and others. These are small companies who try (and often succeed) in giving us watch enthusiasts much of the quality and trappings of a luxury brand at an affordable price. It's ashame when someone takes a chance on a business that they love only to have their design copied( not homages, one for one copy with a logo change) and be undercut in price and in marketing
If you are happy with your Rolex copy it should be okay.
My problem is that intellectual property is being stolen!
Has this been shut down?
It’s been taken off the Top Posts list that’s for sure.
The way I see it, you are skirting the law. The Customs & Border Protection agents that could potentially intercept your incoming package don’t know whether or not you plan on selling that item to an end user or keeping it for yourself. You are opening yourself up to legal action by the govt that would then necessitate you hiring a lawyer which will cost you money and possibly a massive headache. I would not risk that happening just to try on a watch. You can do that in many other ways that don’t require you contacting a criminal organization to do so. Call a reputable grey market dealer and ask them to send you a watch so you can check it out. Most allow you to return the watch within a 7-14 day window. That would be the route I’d take if I couldn’t visit a Rolex AD that had an exhibition model to try on. When you order that “super clone” (which yours is far from BTW) you’re opening yourself up to litigation. That is not something I would consider but if you don’t care you do you. Just don’t expect to get much love from many of us here on WC. We accept homages but out right fakes are no bueno in many of our eyes.
Potentially a gray area, will admit that. I haven't heard of individual buyers facing consequences other than losing their package when it's seized, but you make a great point. The potential for legal action, even if only civil penalties like fines, is presumably there.
It’s been taken off the Top Posts list that’s for sure.
You're right. "Shadow-banned," as they say. Ew. I'd rather them just take it down and message me to let me know. Then change ToS to reflect new rules.
Potentially a gray area, will admit that. I haven't heard of individual buyers facing consequences other than losing their package when it's seized, but you make a great point. The potential for legal action, even if only civil penalties like fines, is presumably there.
It’s much easier and more legally acceptable to take counterfeit goods through a customs port when you’re walking through it such as a port of entry on the southern or northern border, or at an airport customs station. They will actually slow you to carry one article of each item through customs for personal use.
Customs & International Trade Law
The following is from the above linked website.
“What the readers of this blog, and even many U.S. Customs officers, do not know is that it is perfectly legal for a person who visits China, or any other foreign country, to buy counterfeit merchandise there, including one counterfeit Gucci bag and one counterfeit Montblanc pen, declare it on the U.S. Customs declaration form, pass through U.S. Customs, and enjoy using the counterfeit items in the United States. Of course, you generally get what you pay for, so the $2,000 Gucci bag that you purchased in China for $80 may not be such a bargain, but it can be a lot of fun to shop at a Chinese flea market, and compare the purchased products to the genuine items at your local U.S.-based retail store, or so I am told.
According to Customs Directive No. 2310-011A dated January 24, 2000, “Customs officers shall permit any person arriving in the United States to import one article, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar, or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and not for sale.” Moreover, the Directive states that “Customs officers shall permit the arriving person to retain one article of each type accompanying the person.”
Now, don’t go crazy trying to bring too much counterfeit stuff into the United States at once. There are many restrictions. You can only bring counterfeit stuff in every 30 days, it must “accompany” you which means no FedEx, UPS, or DHL packages, and it is only applicable to “one article of each type” which means, for example, if you attempt to bring in two counterfeit Gucci bags, they both will be seized by U.S. Customs. And “personal use” means for you the traveler only; no counterfeit gifts for your friends and family.”
I guess just be careful and make sure you aren’t opening yourself up to litigation. For me peace of mind is everything. Have a good rest of your weekend. 🥂
Has this been shut down?
Nope , yet clearly in the reporting system there is a counterfeit option box.
It's bizarre that the topic is reportable yet these threads do not seem to get taken down.
If the admin of this group is happy for members to share thier counterfeit goods then WC is complicit in helping promote them unfortunately which is why in enthusiast groups the topic is off limits.
Not having defined criteria for posting doesn't do anyone any favors , it certainly creates negativity.
The admin in this group need to make it clear what is acceptable to post.
Fake watches suck. They are illegal for a reason. It's one thing to buy one knowing it's fake but what about the guy who saves up for years and winds up with one when he thinks he paid for an original. All luxury goods aren't meant for everyone. There are plenty of things that I simply can't afford. But I'm not buying a fake and flaunting it like it's the real thing. But that's just me.
Fake watches suck. They are illegal for a reason. It's one thing to buy one knowing it's fake but what about the guy who saves up for years and winds up with one when he thinks he paid for an original. All luxury goods aren't meant for everyone. There are plenty of things that I simply can't afford. But I'm not buying a fake and flaunting it like it's the real thing. But that's just me.
I don't blame fake watches for someone getting ripped off by a dishonest dealer/seller. I blame the dealer/seller, and to some extent, the uninformed consumer.
No flaunting like it's real. (I was totally transparent in this thread, for example, and would always be the first to say it's a fake.). But I guess I'm one of the few people who doesn't associate self-worth or "status" with the watch I wear. It's why I struggle with modern Rolex altogether, a lot of baggage comes with the brand. But I also shouldn't let that ruin the brand for me. I wear watches for my own amusement, not the approval of others (clearly, LOL).
I will probably never purchase a Pepsi in real life, because I'd never pay over retail, and I'll probably never be allocated one. But I wanted to get most of the experience by buying a replica and you know what? I did. No matter what people say. Now the real thing is, as a result, less impressive.
I don't respect or admire someone because they have a modern Rolex on. If anything, I surmise that they are most likely a douche bag who knows nothing about watches. HAHA. That tends to be the rule. The exception being that they are genuine watch collectors in it for the right reasons, and not to peacock.
Just like people who drive Porsches. Car enthusiasts or D-bags who just want "the best thing." Hard to say, ha!
This is why I like Pagani Design. It can make me feel like I’m wearing a $40,000 Daytona without having to spend $40,000 on a Daytona lol.
This is why I like Pagani Design. It can make me feel like I’m wearing a $40,000 Daytona without having to spend $40,000 on a Daytona lol.
Honestly that's a good point. Maybe I should've gone with one of those.
Oh, I’m impressed. I have no emotional connection to the watch, but impressed. Thanks for sharing your personal collecting philosophy, totally get it.
A watch doesn’t HAVE to have meaning. It HAS to tell the time. That’s it. Nothing else. That’s what $70 Pagani Design watches exist. A watch can “mean” anything you want it to. I want mine to mean that I have enough money to buy a watch that looks like a $40,000 Rolex without having to spend $40,000.