Buying my first vintage (on eBay). I have some questions

While I MIGHT find authentic watches being sold from India, the chances are so slim that I just don't even consider the chance real.

As far as what's collectible, well that depends on you. Maybe you want a bunch of Frankenwatches from India. If so, collectible for you. Do you want shiny & looking brand new GP's? Then collectible, for you.

Wittnauer is a good brand. I'm sure the tagged folks will have the specifics about what to look for and might have even posted about this previously

It was a long time ago but unless the movement was special, a restored watch, overly polished case, refinished dial was challenging to sell to the serious collector. Watches like that were almost regarded as fashion accessories for the individual who wore a watch but preferred something interesting, unique. However, then as now depends on how the individual views the hobby. I recall shopping for vintage 50, 60s Rolex watches, the seller would state that polishing cases was like blasting the value from the watch.

1. Yes

2. You kind of answered that one by asking it - it is a risk in terms of provenance (please note I am NOT saying everything from these markets is spank, but you have to look at the volume of vintage coming from those markets and wonder how/why/when they would have made it there) but if you like it just be aware… it’s not like you could take the “Oris” to Oris down the line, if that makes sense, and resale will be difficult.

3. Again, it’s down to what you want from the watch. There are varying degrees of restoration, and as such, is it actually benefiting the watch, or is it actually doing more harm than good. Is it franken? If you want to resell down the line, will it have harmed the value, if that is your modus operandi (you could just buy it because you like it). There is no hard and fast answer, because I should not be the one dictating what you buy, per se, but the more original a watch is the more perceived value to a certain collector. If it’s absolutely gorgeous, then trying to dissuade you might be tricky, so it doesn’t matter what is said now.

I’m not sure I actually helped, but I think you should be asking these sorts of questions.

Thank you so much! I learned something today

Despite popular opinion, I can provide a service. I would be keen to see what sort of shiny GP is getting you all hot under the collar, but I appreciate that you might not want to share 😂

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/134893837629

This one sir.

Red is the hardest color paint to make colorfast because it fades so easily. It was a really big deal when automakers figured it out. When that watch was made most watch dials were white, cream or champagne, or black. Blue was rare. Red....let's just say I have never seen one until the 1970's that I believed was real.

Everything is collectable. Restored, unrestored, all can make people happy. There is a bias among those of us that have done this for a while that prefers a little wear and tear to show. None of my vintage watches are perfect. That's what I expect in a new modern watch purchase.

I don't worry about new crystals. I put them on many of my watches. I would be careful with Omega and some other brands that put etching into their crystals, but for most they are standard sizes and are meant to be replaced. Repainting a dial is a bridge that I won't cross (with knowledge). I am also allergic to frankenwatches where the case and dial don't match the movement. I have made mistakes and disclosed them when I sold the watches.

And yes, Wittnauer is a good brand. Their heyday was the 1950's, but you can find them throughout the 20th Century. Often they had Longines movements in them. Before that they frequently had Revue movements.

Thank you! I'll find an un-repainted dial. Thanks so much

Avoid a refurbished dial - it really sucks the soul out of the piece and mistakes (alignment of indices) can be common.

Case polishing does lose a bit of the history from a watch - which is often what you're looking for in a vintage piece - but light polishing infrequently, isn't a complete no-no.

More intrusive polishing can be the death of a watch. It can whittle down lugs leaving springbars exposed (look for nice crisp case edges) and deep secure spring bar holes, polishing can wear through capped gold and remove hallmarks/serial numbers, etc - which is truly damaging.

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind

Three big suggestions for you:

1. Watchuseek is your friend. Get an account there

2. Read across as many forums and info as you can

3. Do your homework. Especially if you are on the hunt for a popular model or brand.

A movement from any time from 1945 in a colour not usually seen until the mid-late 1970s. Whilst I cannot pinpoint when GP went away from text to using the applied GP initial logo, I would fathom they might not have still been using the GP03.

I’m sorry - I’m not 100% sure what is going on there, but I do understand as it’s very shiny.

4) Phone a friend - it’s ok to ask, vintagewatch-anonymous support line is 24/7/365

Haha thanks! As Aurelian suggested, it probably has a repainted dial. I will be staying away from this watch.

At least now I know what to look for!

Wittnauer was a great brand. They had some sort of arcane partnership with Longines and some of the watches are branded Wittnauer-Longines. I am not sure if Longines made the movements for Wittnauer or if them made the components for the movements. Any explanations I've read are very murky. At any rate, I own 2. The Wittnauer automatic is a great watch from around 1960 and I have a hand wind with a linen dial that has been challenging. It kept stopping so I found a watch maker who repaired it. It worked fine for while and went back to its old habits and needs to go back to the doctors. I'm not sure about recommending a seller on this forum. I bought the automatic from the same dealer I bought my vintage LeCoultre from and they are great. I dropped the LeCoultre and they let me send it back to them for repairs and the cost of the repairs was very reasonable. It just took a while because they had to source a part for a watch that was made in 1938. Anyway, that's my 2 cents, and if you want the name of the dealer on eBay I'll be happy to send it to you.

Please send me the name of the dealer. I am interested.

Thanks for sharing

The dealer is Watch Buyers International on eBay. It's sort of the shallow end of the pool as far as prices go, but they stand behind their products and if you check them out they have some interesting watches quite often and they only seem to clean and give a light buff up as opposed to refinishing the faces and over polishing the cases. Also, if you contacted them about being in the market for a Wittnauer they seem like they would let you know if one becomes available. Honestly, don't spend a lot on your first vintage watch. See if you like them first. Also, vintage watches tend to be 30-34 mm cases for men's watches, just so you know.

With Vintage and little experience, it would serve you well to buy from trusted vintage dealers.

@BadgeHoarder

I’ve bought Indian watches before, two now.

Often the watch itself isn’t bad per se, but it’s not authentic. Many Indian watches are known as Frankenwatches, essentially cannibalizing parts from other watches. Dials are usually repainted too

Unless it’s an HMT (I have two; they’re cheap and robust and use old Citizen movements), it’s almost certainly a fake (No Oris or Fortis is $25!) Even then, parts can be missing (my HMTs need a Parashock ring eg)

Postage can be erratic; I bought a watch for parts and a strap and it says it’ll arrive in March but my HMT i bought this summer came a month early.

TL;DR:

Indian watches are good to learn on, cheap decent movements

If you don’t care abt authenticity, they’re fine and look great!

Cons: long postage, dubious quality, meh to bad straps

Aaaaand it is gone. Did you buy it? Nice watch and good price!

Thanks. That is lesson!

I didn’t buy it

Thank you!

@Aurelian and @Porthole beat me to it and I would've said exactly what they have said. I'll add my two cents on Girard Perregeaux. Excellent watches, but bear in mind that they have in-house movements. I am working on a '70s Bucherer, which has a movement similar in structure to the modern ETA 2824, so finding a broken part I need won't be too difficult.

While you'll probably be able to find parts if you own a vintage GP, my worry is sellers knowing that you are desperate for scarce parts and hiking prices up.

I always say that a brightly coloured dial on a vintage watch is a red flag. I'm trying to write a beginner's guide to vintage watches, so my opinion is that you may be looking at the wrong sort of watch. I'd suggest starting with something cheaper, like a basic jobber. Decent Rotary watches can be had for not too much money and off-the-shelf movements are easy to get going once they go wrong. You won't get brand cache, but you will get a reliable product. Or you won't. Vintage watches are temperamental devils. Look for something clean and mechanically sound. Do not start with Omega F300Hz, early Accutron or LED watches unless you're an electrician or know one who can fix them without charging you an arm and a leg. Simplicity is key for your first vintage watch. If it breaks, rather let it be something simple so that bringing it back to life again won't involve blood contracts with demons. As a general rule of thumb, don't buy from India or Turkey or Pakistan or other similar places.

I hope some of this helped!

Thanks Ryan!

My rule of thumb on eBay is:

• If it is a cheap watch I’ll take risks (<$300). If it is an expensive watch it has to have authenticity guarantee (>$2,000). I don’t tend buy watches in-between because of the risks mentioned.

I tend to limit expensive watch purchases to items sold in the US because of import taxes. The sole exception are sellers from Japan with >99% feesback. If they have a watch I want and cannot find anywhere else then I’ll pull the trigger.

There is an extension for Chrome called Fakespot. It tells you if a seller is funky based on reviews.

Thanks, I’ll check out Fakespot

Wittnauer was a rebrand name for Longines, often sharing the same movements, so yes, they’re very good

This is my favorite kind of posts. People trying to help each other. Very informative and shows the kind of knowledge and care. I found @Aurelian @Porthole @Ryan_Schwartz comments very insightful.

So with my #vintage purchases, I’ve targeted only professional dealers with brick and mortar stores also. Feel safer if I can find someone to go after if need be. I would also do a ton of research on the model, since you may have to become the only true Authenticator for that model