Issues With the New Sartory Billard
Thinking out loud for a bit, and venting, and maybe looking for some feedback. So, as I've posted, I got the new Sartory Billard a few weeks ago. I'm quite happy with how it turned out. However, it has a couple of issues. First, there's a spot of schmutz on one of the numerals, tiny, but visible to the naked eye; I spotted it without a loupe or anything. Then I noticed that timekeeping was erratic, and then I left it dial up, and it gained 20 seconds/day. So I experimented, and I left it in multiple position a couple of days each. Dial up it gained ~19 seconds/day, 6 o'clock up ~14 secs., 3 up ~4secs. So positional variation is extreme. It looks like it needs some adjustment and regulation.
So I suppose I have to contact Armand Billard. But I don't know what a reasonable solution would be. Sending it back and forth to France seems like an awful ado. I don't know if it's reasonable to have it fixed by a watchmaker here in the US, and have him cover the expense. Or do I suck it up and pay for it myself? And I would have to find a reliable watchmaker.
Reality check: Are my complaints reasonable, or am I being obsessive? How would you handle something like this? I've never dealt with something like this before, so some feedback would be helpful.
The picture here isn't the best, but you can just see the black speck on the 4 (四).
Was born. Bought watches. Will die.
Reach out to them and describe the issues. They may prefer you send it back or they may refund/credit you an amount that you can use towards repair by a local watchmaker.
@wilfried these are legit frustrations and complaints. I would reach back out to them with all the issues and have them give you options on how to rectify it. This wasn’t a “favor” they did for you. You paid good money based on the expectation of a certain level of craftsmanship and quality which they did not deliver. Yes it might seem like a hassle. Same when I had to send my GMT1 back to Kurono in Japan. But especially with mechanical watches, we expect to be delighted and enamored by our beauties. If the watchmaker doesn’t deliver because they didn’t follow through properly, they need to fix it. It’s that simple.
Do not pay for it yourself, contact them and get a solution you are happy with and if they can't agree something that makes you happy get a full refund.
That's too bad. That's a once in a lifetime purchase probably. Not in my lifetime though.😅 Don't do anything until you get the company involved. I hope they make this right.
You expected better and deserve it.
Reach out to them and if needed send back. You will not unsee this anymore. The watch wasn't "cheap" so would expect certain level of QC. Re accuracy I don't know what they declare bit this LJP movement can do better if regulated
An inherent issue of smaller scale independents and micro brands, yes, it can happen to the titans too, but there are easier channels to remedy it.
A few things:
Does Sartory warranty new pieces against defect or craftsmanship. If not the. Inherently you bought a handmade product (regarding the dial and mineral surround spot). I agree that the spot is large enough that even the most lazy attempt at QC should have seen that.
As for regulating it, contact him and ask the best course of action, I’d imagine a solution or middle ground can be found, maybe he can recommend a watchmaker in whatever country you are located and then agree to cover some of the expense. I personally would contact him and see what he says and if it is a big hassle send it back to him and accept that is the best solution.
Right now you are probably getting worked up over not even knowing real options.
Again, not to kick you while you are down, but it’s not like you bought a Rolex or Omega through an AD or Manufacturer Voutique channel and can simply return to the POS to handle. These types of watches and pricing to an extent are only possible because they don’t also have to carry the overhead of brick and mortar, retail channel, service and warranty etc….
I’ve heard he’s a very nice guy and proud of what he makes and sells. There is nothing to lose by running the issues by him. I suspect he will be accommodating. This is an expensive bespoke watch that has taken time to design, make and arrive. You are understandably disappointed as I would be, especially with the time keeping. I hope you get a good outcome.
Considering the cost. Contact Armand, and see if he will make it right. Then send it, if no other options please let us know what happens and find a local solution.
Although don't know which Joux Perret movement your watch has. I had a quick look at the specs for the G100 movement 0 to 14 seconds. Have a look yourself, see what you can find. Good to have the information in your hand before you make first contact.
Reach out to them and describe the issues. They may prefer you send it back or they may refund/credit you an amount that you can use towards repair by a local watchmaker.
Some positions seem to be in spec, others do not. Which indicates a check by a watchmaker. Shouldn't need to send back to SB for that. And local watchmaker can check numeral smudge while it's open.
Some positions seem to be in spec, others do not. Which indicates a check by a watchmaker. Shouldn't need to send back to SB for that. And local watchmaker can check numeral smudge while it's open.
I am unfamiliar with the spec of that watch/movement but think the 14s is average deviation (no?) which would fall in line with an Elabore SW200
The SW200 of said grade also has 20s positional tolerance so what OP is seeing is actually not that wild but rather a reminder that mechanical watches are really quite bad at telling time.
The dial needs to be cleaned probably back home on France.
I wouldn't stress about time keeping. This watch is about customisation and aesthetics, not chronometry. That said, they could have done a better job adjusting so they might as well do that while the watch is in for cleaning. And that said, as unfortunate as it is, it's probably still in spec...
I am unfamiliar with the spec of that watch/movement but think the 14s is average deviation (no?) which would fall in line with an Elabore SW200
The SW200 of said grade also has 20s positional tolerance so what OP is seeing is actually not that wild but rather a reminder that mechanical watches are really quite bad at telling time.
For a new watch, seems there should be more consistency in the readings. That is more of my point.
For a new watch, seems there should be more consistency in the readings. That is more of my point.
I don't disagree. It should run better because it absolutely can and especially small time makers like SB should inspect each movement they get extra carefully. I would expect them to rectify this no questions asked.
In fact, even though I wouldn't care much about this timing deviation (I would about the dirt though), I'd take it personally if they don't honor such a request because I planned on getting a SB05 at some point from them which ain't cheap...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IRcxY_oIWm8 It seems similar to this reviewer of the watch, lot of QC issues. I love the triple guilloche and the ability to customize but compare the quality to the cost, its risky.
Personally (as I have "a man") I would just get it sorted myself. I know you shouldn't have to but it's a lot of messing about just for half an hour's work by a good watchmaker.
I just got my dial video today and while I was looking for a different dial, I saw your watch on FB. It remains a beautiful piece. That said, I agree with others, to clean the dial, I would work with him to clean it. He seems like a nice enough guy and I would think he’d stand behind the finishing.
As far as the movement, those times are not bad. It is always tough because the circumstances can vary the time. IE, Was the watch fully wound?
Sorry to read this Wilfried, I know how much you like the watch.
I can find reliable watchmakers near the localities of my consumers in other countries - I think Armand could do the same for you regarding the dust or smudge. As for the timing, there’s a good chance it’s magnetized (just posted on here about that) so I’d try demagnetizing it and ensuring it’s fully wound while observing it
Hi @wilfried, I'm Maor, the Operations Manager at Sartory Billard.
To clarify, we take full responsibility for any manufacturing defects. Armand will be in touch with you to arrange the return of the watch. Rest assured, all costs, including labor and shipping, will be fully covered by us.
Feel free to reach out at any time if you have any questions.
Hi @maorzelinger, thank you so much for getting in touch! I'm a little embarrassed meeting you here. I've already heard from Armand. I intended to get in touch with him, but I put it off for a bit, as I was dealing with other things. Thanks again.
Reporting back for the record in case anyone finds this thread in the future. The watch went back to France to have the speck of dust removed. The issue with the movement turned out to be magnetism. Armand was very good about getting it taken care of. It's back and back on wrist, so all is well. Thank you Armand and @maorzelinger.