Modern Vintage Divers...these aren't my scratches...
I have to admit right now I feel a bit like Icarus. I've gone too close to the sun without listening to my own advice. And now I am at a crossroads again. If you are as fastidious and unreasonable as I am, then you may have found yourself in a similar situation.
I've been climbing mount Seiko for a while now when it comes to dive watches. It's been an arduous journey, full of doubt and some, but not many regrets. At first it was getting through the price barrier. What should a Seiko dive watch cost? Well that is not a reasonable question. You want it? You pay! The sooner you can accept this, the sooner you'll start enjoying your watch. My summit in this respect has always been a true MAS recreation. Thus comes the SJE093 into the picture.
Once again, if you're a true Seiko fan boy, then these things all make sense. Sure the SJE093 is the same price as a Black Bay. It's also not as good of a spec, or name recognition, or bracelet, or Swiss. But you know what it is? The OG diver for Seiko as a brand. You can say all you want the BB54 is a true throwback to original Tudor dive watches, but you would still be referencing a reference of a Rolex. And that's all fine and well, but the MAS references no one but itself. Anyways, I don't think one or the other is better, it's just preference, and the Seiko fans are in the minority (I assume).
This has all led me to believe the SJE093 is a true representation of what a "grail watch" is for me. The near perfect recreation of a dive watch that defined a brand. It's why I longed for the SPB143 for so long, but every time I tried it on I was just thinking "this is close, but not it". And ultimately I bought into the MM200 instead, but never forgot about the MAS.
Finally I said to myself "just get it!". Next year I'm looking at renovating my house, and the kids are growing, it's now or not for a long while. So I started hunting, and that hunt led to a listing, a used piece, but a great price considering the current market value. And thus I purchased the "grail"...
I waited for about two weeks for it to come in. Excitedly, I kept looking up videos, pics, articles, just thinking soon I would have it all! And then it arrived. I unpacked it in my car, I looked at it, and I felt this instead...
Why did I feel this way? Well from the getgo it was all about not managing my own expectations. It didn't come with a physical warranty card for example, rather a forwarded email from the original owner. It had no manual, also now electronic. But worst of all, it had scratches, scratches that were not mine!
Now I bought this watch used, below MSRP, it was described as such. I thought this was the way to go, most of them are trading well above MSRP because this is a limited edition which you can't find at ADs anymore. The scratches on the watch are not unreasonable, just standard signs of wear, especially if you've ever dealt with zaratsu polishing. If you just look at it sideways, it will scratch. And let me tell you the exact way to ruin your new watch experience...macro shots:
Initially I rationalized this is probably what it would look like if I owned it for a few months myself. But the thing is, I didn't, someone else did. Someone else got to experience my grail watch new in all its glory. And then they decided to wear clothes or leave their house which resulted in evidence the watch had been worn. Why would they do that?!! The watch doesn't even photograph poorly, it still looks great to the average onlooker.
The dial is stunning, truly, the best I've seen from this brand. Up there with Grand Seiko, better than Tudor, Omega or Rolex IMO. The polish, symmetry, text, all perfectly balanced. But I kept looking at the case! Why am I like this?!
It's only been a couple of days. But I think I have the answer: I traded my expectations for a few dollars. Well maybe not a few, I saved a good $1k initially (taxes in Canada are nuts). But if this is my summit, if this is "the one", why would I settle for a used, discounted piece? I shouldn't have. This is no one's fault but my own. And the worst part is the piece I own is perfectly good, indeed a great deal! But it just doesn't have MY scratches. And that may just be worth selling and rebuying a new one for me.
Does any of it make sense? F#@k no! But it's the price of my expectations. And that's not something you can control, you just swallow it or change it. So for now, that SJE093 sits in my watch box, saving itself from more scratches, while I wear this one instead:
If you think this post is a whiny, "who cares?", first-world-problems vibe, that's because it is! It's also the nature of being an enthusiast. Hopefully you are all better than me and don't obsess about things with trivial importance. But I have a feeling some of you are not 😉
Well rounded nerd, into music, guitar pedals, all things DIY, and watches!
I think you need to wear the sh*t out of it...you don't have to worry about the horror of the "first scratch" and the fact you caused it...you're free to wear it as much as you can and really enjoy the watch you've been wanting for so long...Congrats!
I do get where you coming from esp. with a watch that’s currently available.
But, among other things, I like vintage watches. And good luck finding an unscratched vintage watch. So I have enough experience of finding an elusive watch and settling for something pre-owned with all the imperfections that brings with it.
Having found a good but imperfect watch you still get to experience and enjoy the essential aspects of the watch and so I am mostly okay with that - especially for a vintage grail.
But that said for a true “grail” currently in issue I think I would go with waiting longer and saving a bit more to get it new and unblemished … but only if you know it’s going to be a keeper.
Now that you have direct experience of ownership only fork out for new if you know it’ll be a keeper.
I hear ya, but watches get scratches. Get it on your wrist and make some of your own. If you can't do that, and you leave it in the box for too long, you should probably consider selling it (even if at small lose).
If it is a limited edition, do you think you will find one unused for a reasonable price? Maybe you can have it serviced and have the scratches removed and it would feel like a new watch to you.
I also have an MM200 1968 recreation and I recently bought the 62MAS recreation, the 62MAS looks more tool watch than the MM200, with a simpler case shape and finish, the MM200 case is more angular and with more polished surfaces, it is blingier. I love both watches, I think they complement each other.
I would peel the blue sticker from the case back (I hate those!) and wear it and enjoy it like the gorgeous watch it is.
I recently bought a used watch I’ve been stalking for some time too, though perhaps not as enthusiasticly as you have been. I picked up an Oris Diver 65 heritage. It is in good shape but not without a few scratches, probably similar to your Seiko, and I just see it as part of the cost. I agree with you that this is about expectation management, and perhaps a bit of buyer’s remorse. I figure you’ll get over it soon enough and embrace the flaws. These are used tool watches. Honestly I sort of like that mine has had some time in the world and a few scratches.
Very entertaining post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
I think you need to wear the sh*t out of it...you don't have to worry about the horror of the "first scratch" and the fact you caused it...you're free to wear it as much as you can and really enjoy the watch you've been wanting for so long...Congrats!
This is reasonable advice. I hope someday, like you, I will find some sanity of my own.
I do get where you coming from esp. with a watch that’s currently available.
But, among other things, I like vintage watches. And good luck finding an unscratched vintage watch. So I have enough experience of finding an elusive watch and settling for something pre-owned with all the imperfections that brings with it.
Having found a good but imperfect watch you still get to experience and enjoy the essential aspects of the watch and so I am mostly okay with that - especially for a vintage grail.
But that said for a true “grail” currently in issue I think I would go with waiting longer and saving a bit more to get it new and unblemished … but only if you know it’s going to be a keeper.
Now that you have direct experience of ownership only fork out for new if you know it’ll be a keeper.
Indeed, that also factors: knowing I could have a new one. If that was not an option, I would maybe be happy and move on? Who knows!
I hear ya, but watches get scratches. Get it on your wrist and make some of your own. If you can't do that, and you leave it in the box for too long, you should probably consider selling it (even if at small lose).
I don't mind scratches, just want the full experience of pristine to scratch for myself. In any case, yes, currently this one is on the chopping block if I can find a brand-new/unworn piece to replace it.
If it is a limited edition, do you think you will find one unused for a reasonable price? Maybe you can have it serviced and have the scratches removed and it would feel like a new watch to you.
I also have an MM200 1968 recreation and I recently bought the 62MAS recreation, the 62MAS looks more tool watch than the MM200, with a simpler case shape and finish, the MM200 case is more angular and with more polished surfaces, it is blingier. I love both watches, I think they complement each other.
I would peel the blue sticker from the case back (I hate those!) and wear it and enjoy it like the gorgeous watch it is.
Couldn't agree more with the two styles offering their own appeal. Refinishing it did go through my head, but then I would also have to pay an arm and a leg possibly. And I don't know if they could get rid of the bezel scratches.
I recently bought a used watch I’ve been stalking for some time too, though perhaps not as enthusiasticly as you have been. I picked up an Oris Diver 65 heritage. It is in good shape but not without a few scratches, probably similar to your Seiko, and I just see it as part of the cost. I agree with you that this is about expectation management, and perhaps a bit of buyer’s remorse. I figure you’ll get over it soon enough and embrace the flaws. These are used tool watches. Honestly I sort of like that mine has had some time in the world and a few scratches.
You are obviously a better adjusted individual than I 🤣
I want to get over it, believe me. It's currently still a pit in my stomach though. We'll see if it goes away in a couple of days.
I don't mind scratches, just want the full experience of pristine to scratch for myself. In any case, yes, currently this one is on the chopping block if I can find a brand-new/unworn piece to replace it.
If you do end up getting a new one once you get your first scratch, you’ll have to decide if the one you currently have was fine to begin with or at least maybe that’s a topic for a post
I think I'm in the minority as the 62mas and the BB do nothing for me, but that does mean I get to enjoy my weird unloved Seiko for bargain prices.
I think I'm in the minority as the 62mas and the BB do nothing for me, but that does mean I get to enjoy my weird unloved Seiko for bargain prices.
tons of good Seiko deals out there if your not an obsessive like myself
I don't mind scratches, just want the full experience of pristine to scratch for myself. In any case, yes, currently this one is on the chopping block if I can find a brand-new/unworn piece to replace it.
BTW - I like your appreciation of the 62MAS
Happens to the best of us! I’ve already owned and flipped the SJE093. Lovely watch, but i have… the sickness 😆
It really is...incurable it seems
The first watches I’ve worn were seikos and I had a bad time with them but at that time some of them were cheap so of course you get what you pay for so no complaints, yet it’s never been something I’ve thought of getting again, until the 62MAS remake came out and I was like yep that’s the one🔥I started having a look around but it was too late as I only saw a few on sale at a premium , and that was that I just left it there, but if one was to show up for a good price I would be interested .
I think it’s how much you desire something and if it’s limited you grab what you can even the not so perfect ones as fear of losing out of theres just a few left.
I totally understand where your coming from.
When I first got my Sub I was nit-picky too over the smallest things like what position the logo was on the crown, why? Because I had to pay the premium for the watch well over retail and they had a few around the same price for me to choose from, if I was lucky enough to get it at retail from the AD I’d take it no matter what.
This is us though ! If it’s a grail or not these things are expensive most of the time and we want them to be perfect .
Right now I’m in a similar place , I want the pelagos FXD M.N version but I don’t like the number 24 on the back, I’ve been offered it at all the Tudor ADs I’ve been to but the don’t have any old stock 22 or 23 versions. I just found what online just for a little bit cheaper a 22 version I was just about to buy it and pay the deposit to get it shipped over from the States when they should be the large scratch makes on the side of the case. At first as feeling desperate i said okay, lucky I had a problem with my card and it didn’t go through , otherwise I’d be in your shoes now.
I know too this may sound silly it’s just a stupid number on the back people say, but no it’s not for us watch geeks.
In the week ahead, a used Seiko is coming in the mail for me. I'm wondering if it will be a similar story, but we shall see. One key difference is that although the watch I'm getting was first bought new in 2022, it's already a discontinued piece (and actually may have already been discontinued when it was first bought; I need to check). So although I saved quite a lot on what some sell for - via a very fair private seller - the simple fact is that I had to go s/h as I couldn't see any new ones for sale, anyway. Fingers crossed on how it looks.
The first watches I’ve worn were seikos and I had a bad time with them but at that time some of them were cheap so of course you get what you pay for so no complaints, yet it’s never been something I’ve thought of getting again, until the 62MAS remake came out and I was like yep that’s the one🔥I started having a look around but it was too late as I only saw a few on sale at a premium , and that was that I just left it there, but if one was to show up for a good price I would be interested .
I think it’s how much you desire something and if it’s limited you grab what you can even the not so perfect ones as fear of losing out of theres just a few left.
I totally understand where your coming from.
When I first got my Sub I was nit-picky too over the smallest things like what position the logo was on the crown, why? Because I had to pay the premium for the watch well over retail and they had a few around the same price for me to choose from, if I was lucky enough to get it at retail from the AD I’d take it no matter what.
This is us though ! If it’s a grail or not these things are expensive most of the time and we want them to be perfect .
Right now I’m in a similar place , I want the pelagos FXD M.N version but I don’t like the number 24 on the back, I’ve been offered it at all the Tudor ADs I’ve been to but the don’t have any old stock 22 or 23 versions. I just found what online just for a little bit cheaper a 22 version I was just about to buy it and pay the deposit to get it shipped over from the States when they should be the large scratch makes on the side of the case. At first as feeling desperate i said okay, lucky I had a problem with my card and it didn’t go through , otherwise I’d be in your shoes now.
I know too this may sound silly it’s just a stupid number on the back people say, but no it’s not for us watch geeks.
I feel seen hahaha. I get it, there's always something, however small, that matters.
In the week ahead, a used Seiko is coming in the mail for me. I'm wondering if it will be a similar story, but we shall see. One key difference is that although the watch I'm getting was first bought new in 2022, it's already a discontinued piece (and actually may have already been discontinued when it was first bought; I need to check). So although I saved quite a lot on what some sell for - via a very fair private seller - the simple fact is that I had to go s/h as I couldn't see any new ones for sale, anyway. Fingers crossed on how it looks.
Yes, I'm sure in a year or two any unworn SJE093 will also be extinct. Hence I'm literally buying time if I go find one now.
I hope yours turns out well!
It’s a great watch, wear the hell out of it!
I say the same as all the other commenters... wear the hell out of it. The new scratches will blend with the old, and they will all be YOUR scratches.
I say the same as all the other commenters... wear the hell out of it. The new scratches will blend with the old, and they will all be YOUR scratches.
I agree with all of you, but the damage is done. I can't look at this watch the same. Even if it's another scratched watch, it just can't be this one. I know, my brain needs a tuneup.
If you really want a new one, you can sell this used one and just give Topper a call. They have them in stock now. Seiko has not finished the production run yet.
Or if you don't want to deal with selling, they also take trade ins!
If you really want a new one, you can sell this used one and just give Topper a call. They have them in stock now. Seiko has not finished the production run yet.
Or if you don't want to deal with selling, they also take trade ins!
Too late, the deed is done. Got a new one already. But thanks for the tip!
I'm sorry the experience was not all that you had hoped. But sounds like you learned something about watches, and yourself. Onward and upward
RE post from last week- newly unbanned me!
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Hi Hector!
Oh man, sorry I missed this a month ago. Brutal. Where is the saga now? Still not wearing?!
Have you considered a cape cod cloth and a pit scrubber to refurb any small spots that bug you too much?
If it’s any consolation- I have the reverse issue. Brand new watches scare the crsp out of me, and I can’t wear them for fear of the first scratch.
Buying pre owned (pre scratched) fill me with happiness.
Save lots of money! Wear it with reckless abandon since one or 2 more scratches will be imperceptible!!
My fave watches are all pre owned!
If you’re up for it - let’s get an update to this story!
RE post from last week- newly unbanned me!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Hector!
Oh man, sorry I missed this a month ago. Brutal. Where is the saga now? Still not wearing?!
Have you considered a cape cod cloth and a pit scrubber to refurb any small spots that bug you too much?
If it’s any consolation- I have the reverse issue. Brand new watches scare the crsp out of me, and I can’t wear them for fear of the first scratch.
Buying pre owned (pre scratched) fill me with happiness.
Save lots of money! Wear it with reckless abandon since one or 2 more scratches will be imperceptible!!
My fave watches are all pre owned!
If you’re up for it - let’s get an update to this story!
I did consider a good cape cod treatment. But it's zaratsu, I doubt I can make it look the same. Plus the bezel had minor marks on it, and those I can't polish out.
That said, there is a happy ending here. Check this out:
I got a second one! 🤣 Can you tell which is the unworn version?
I definitely lost some money on this experience, but I couldn't live with the scratches. The unworn version is exactly what I was looking for. And it happens to be a lower serial number too (that matters right?).
Now the painful process of trying to sell the spare watch is what I'm dealing with. This also set off a slurry of other purchases because I know haaaave to have an SKX013 and a Citizen NY0040. More in that later....
Thanks for the follow-up! Loving the Shunbun, I really should wear mine more.
I did consider a good cape cod treatment. But it's zaratsu, I doubt I can make it look the same. Plus the bezel had minor marks on it, and those I can't polish out.
That said, there is a happy ending here. Check this out:
I got a second one! 🤣 Can you tell which is the unworn version?
I definitely lost some money on this experience, but I couldn't live with the scratches. The unworn version is exactly what I was looking for. And it happens to be a lower serial number too (that matters right?).
Now the painful process of trying to sell the spare watch is what I'm dealing with. This also set off a slurry of other purchases because I know haaaave to have an SKX013 and a Citizen NY0040. More in that later....
Thanks for the follow-up! Loving the Shunbun, I really should wear mine more.
Well, you are deep in an SLA honeymoon and time with that sexy new girl should and will win every time. Treat yo’self my man!
Lower number better, and it’s not a mistake if fixing this has made you happy. I forbid you any feelings of regret.
I’m in honeymoon phase as well so sakura has been getting shirked in favor of crazy sparkly Ryusendo
Well, you are deep in an SLA honeymoon and time with that sexy new girl should and will win every time. Treat yo’self my man!
Lower number better, and it’s not a mistake if fixing this has made you happy. I forbid you any feelings of regret.
I’m in honeymoon phase as well so sakura has been getting shirked in favor of crazy sparkly Ryusendo
Ohhh, I forgot you got that Ryusendo. Man, that dial is bananas! 🤤
My work might take me to Korea this year, I'm gonna have to make that jump to Japan if they do. I cannot be trusted however, no way I won't pick up a GS.
Don't worry I'm guilt free so far. Just gotta hustle to sell some watches I don't wear anymore hahaha.