what is your position on copied and renamed watches ( often wrongly called homages, similar to invicta, pagani etc...)

The renaming part annoys me. Copy the name too!

I'm mostly C with a sprinkling of D.

I suspect you're aware you're opening a can of worms... Arguably, they are legal fakes. But why can't we call them homages? Just curious. Not saying I disagree.

I think it is wrong because the meaning of homages taken from the dictionary is "Homage means great respect and honor, or something done to honor a person or thing". As we can see it is not written a renamed copy😅, I think that this term has been associated with this typology of watches to avoid the legal problem that would follow if called renamed copies and to justify ourselfs a bit to buy something that is a copy.

So... not "respect and honour". Just cynicism and greed?

Don't mind a homage if made by the original manufacturer or the original model has been out of production for many years.

Eg - modern Seiko Willard, homage to Seiko 1970 dive watch

& Steinhart "Steve McQueen" Explorer homage.

Dislike modern copies, they're one step up from fakes IMHO.

A patent only lasts 20 years. No design is completely original and everyone has copied Abraham-Louis Breguet. Seiko, Casio, Timex and just about everyone else has a suspiciously looking dive or OP looking watch in their collection. They're not fooling anyone and for me it's no different than having a Banksy on your wall.

I think the second part is more fitting

"something done to honor a thing", I think a copy does not honor the subject or respect it, it just slaps a name on a deaign done by someone else. Just the slightest changes can homage a watch, in my opinion.

The only one that really bothers me is Rolex steeling the Mercedes badge. That's a trade mark and should be protected. 🍿

for me a reissue of a watch of the same brand is legit, it has not the same taste of the original of course, but it gives the possibility to access to a past watch with the history of the brand and modern specks. On steinhart I dont like them but I understand why people buy them.

I know patents last only 20 years but still you can make different designs and usually they refers to technical features more than aesthetical. I also know that there are design features used in countless designs infact slight changes make a different watch that can homage a watch but without copying it. Like an OP and AT are similar watches but small differences make different watches.

I have to agree on that, never understood that little hour hand

I voted D and it's not a stepping stone to me buying the original. As a retiree with limited means, that will never happen.

But if someone is willing to sell a solid, reliable, classically designed watch for under £200.. and in case of failure I can swap out a new movement myself, I'm not going to be stupid enough to pass up the offer.

On the other side of the argument, if someone is willing to buy a solid reliable, classically designed watch that requires servicing by an expensive expert every few years and are willing and able to pay £10k+ for the privilege.. more power to them.

I've only been a member on this forum for a few weeks and I see this question or something similar popping up almost daily.

So, with all due respect, enjoy your hobby within your means and stop worrying about how others are enjoying theirs. Homages, clones, copies.. call them what you like are legal and are here to stay.

I guess it depends on the piece in question. Here’s an example; I can’t afford to buy an original 1st gen Rolex GMT master. And even if I could, I wouldn’t wear it and use it.

But I can (and did!) buy a WMT Panton Mk2.

Homage? Yes. But in bad taste like a cheap copy? Not at all.

I don't own any but I don't mind them. They are legal and let everyone enjoy a good watch and a design they like without spending above their means. They're like H&M or Zara taking heavy inspiration from luxury fashion trends, or Ikea making affordable versions of $4000 designer stools or lamps.

Chinese manufacturers crafting great solid watches sub $200 force bigger companies to improve their products and QC instead of being complacent in their price segment, so that's a win for me!

People who have a hostile attitude toward homages seem to be snobs upset that the flex on their wrist isn't exclusive enough and anyone can appear to be wearing a Submariner from a distance so they don't feel special anymore.

I'm far from being pure in heart, so I obviously love them - if they are well made. Unlike some poorly made but overpriced big brand watches.

Another great example.

As a side note pretty sure a talented guitar player can make any of them rock 🤏🏻🤘🏻 😉.

What are the differencies between a pagani sub and a invicta pro diver?

All of what this man said, 100%.🙌

Thank you sir. You're a gent'

I feel the same way about them. Watches fall to the bottom of the list of importance when it comes to household finances. I'm lucky to have what I have already. Even if I saved up to get a vintage piece, and was able to deal with the guilt and selfish feelings, I would be afraid to wear the damn thing, out of fear of shattering it against a door knob. A sub $200 "clomage" fills the gap nicely, without fear of my wife leaving me if it meets a similar demise. 🤣 In the end, let people be happy with whatever makes them happy.

How close can an homage be before it becomes a copy? Where's this imaginary line?

I've seen a lot of watches from big respected brands that are more of a copied design than some Paganis/San Martins/etc and no one ever has a problem with them. The people I have interacted with that are anti-homage only seem to be upset if said homage is an extremely low/accessible price and it feels like a bit of elitism to me.

I have a lot of homage watches but go for ones that have something unique about them generally (but not always)

Would like to have a dialogue with someone super against homage watches and get their opinion on some of these:

I personally don't like them, and yes I agree there are watches of big brand that resemble other watches but there us a fine line between copies and homages. Homages are not copies.

For example your submariner with the Wave is possibly an homage and notba copy even if I find it horrible. But respect people that like it and wear it.

cant say the same for the cadisen a remake of a seiko, a seiko!!!?

Of the pictures I provided 3 of them are Seiko homages, all offer something unique not offered by Seiko.

Specifically, the Seiko the Cadisen is an homage to is not available in this colour dial, this vintage style bezel insert or in a 38mm diameter case. It also costs 24x the Cadisen does (containing a Seiko movement)

I am not complaining about the value for money, they provide that, it is undenaible but you are simply buying a fake with a different name that's it, a colour change doesnt make a difference. I saw on the Cadisen website watches with identity that I think are more worthy to buy, instead of their copies. That is my opinion, I buy watches for their hystory, for their thoughs, for their purpose, for the effort the design team as put in to it, I simply dont like copies. If I need to buy a watch just for the bang for bucks I would buy an original Casio not a Skmei (how ever are they called) and used it for their intended purpose! And yes I have a Casio it the best sport watch ever.

Ps

between true homage brand I love Lorier, In my opinion the best homages ever made. And I like the idea behind DanHenry, even if i dont like their watches, but shows how to combine knoledge and passion in a product.

I'm missing one option: "I like them, but they have to be decent quality, and multiple times cheaper than the original."

so a homage?

The topic are copies, not homages.

Yes I think that they can be considered rebranded copies. I think that there are watches very cheap and well built that despite the price offers great quality and great design. Like Casio Lorier and many on. Also some model of san martin has their style and great quality

You can't just put them in the same bag. Invicta has the "decency" to label INVICTA wherever they can. Most of the other homages are too close to counterfeits to my taste.

But if they didn't exist most of us wouldn't be watch enthousiast, because homages are great gateways