Thoughts on crown-feel when winding a watch?
I have 11 watches in my collection, 5 of which are mechanical. I have a vintage Hamilton Sinclair (hand wind only) three automatics that can be hand wounds, a Seiko Prospex Tuna, an Omega Aqua Terra, and an Oris Big Crown Pointer Date and a Seiko Sea Urchin (7S36), which cannot be hand wound. It's a shake and bake.
The feeling of winding the watch is vastly different for each one.
The Hamilton gives crazy feedback. I can feel the mainspring tightening and I know when I have to stop winding. There are no surprises. The resistance is strong and tactile.
The Omega (caliber 8900) is hard to wind, and I sense almost no feedback. I can never tell when the watch is fully wound. It's also hard to turn the crown but at the same time, the feeling is smooth. It's hard to explain. There is tension there, but I don't feel like I'm damaging the watch by overwinding it (and I know that's not possible with automatics).
The Tuna (4R36) offers almost no resistance. It's super light and easy to crank the crown. I can't feel the mainspring tightening at all. It gives the watch a feeling that is almost toy-like.
I hate the way my Oris (Sellita SW-200) winds. It affects my love for the watch. The crown is hard to turn, almost to the point that it feels like I'm turning the rotor with every twist (in fact, I've had to send the watch in for service twice because my reverser wheel was sticking to the rotor when winding the watch). Maybe that old feeling is in my head, but the watch gives me almost no mainspring feedback, but its resistance to turning makes me feel like I'm damaging the movement when hand winding it. I'm almost inclined to shake and bake it like I have to do with my Sea Urchin.
My crown feel has led me to avoid watches with SW-200's in them. Is that rational? Has anyone experienced something similar? I often hear about people who connect with their watches when hand winding them, but for me it's always an exercise in futility. I don't sense when I should stop or what it takes to fully wind the watch. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge? But how the crown feels when winding the watch is a significant input in my purchase decision, which makes buying watches online for me particularly problematic.
Here's a link to my collection: https://www.chrono24.com/user/watch-collection.htm#/overview/owned-watches More of an enthusiast than a collector. Have been wearing a watch and buying watches for 30 y...
Handwinders will always let you know when to stop.
Automatics can be handwound until the cows come home since they have a "clutch" mechanism to prevent inadvertent over winding.
If the rotor spins while winding it's a fairly common event and an easy fix for a watchmaker.
It's a pretty low priority for me. Over the years, I've noticed a pretty low correlation between quality of handwind and quality of watch.
I feel very little feedback from my Cartier Roadster (which is an ETA 2894, which is a generally very good off the shelf movement) or my JLC Master Geographic (with the in house Caliber 939).
The sellita sw-200 in my Direnzo has sort of a raspy feeling to it while the Caliber 4130 on my Daytona feels very smooth with slight resistance.
My favorite is probably the spring drive in my SBGA429, which has a lovely gear like feeling too it with excellent and balanced resistance.
My Longines Spirit Zulu Time is the first watch I’ve owned where the crown winding feels of noticeable quality. It might be that I don’t have enough experience to know better, but it’s better than the ETAs, Powermatic 80s, NH35s, and Oris Caliber 400.
Sw200 and ETA2824 family movements have an overwinding issue where a gear strips. Try not to wind it more than 6 turns to get it started and let the automatic do the rest. Overall they are solid movements. Manual wind is overrated
I've experienced the same with the sw200. However, I've found that it also depends on the manufacturer. Some are better than others at installing the movement. I'm surprised Oris isn't better.
I believe these issues were resolved in the sw200-2 (ETA 2824-2) versions.
Incidentally, this is also why I'm growing more appreciative of the nh35. Hand winding it is actually very pleasant. Little feedback but also little resistance. It's easy to wind.
Does watch wind? (Yes - go to 3; No - go to 2)
No = the experience is poor
Yes = phew - does it hurt your fingers? (No - go to 5; Yes - go to 4)
Yes = the experience is painful
No = the experience is good
Your descriptions are spot-on, based on my experience. I have an Omega with an 8500 movement (basically the same as the 8900, other than the testing done), and it has always felt fairly stiff to wind, even after its service. It is smooth and sturdy feeling... But offers no feedback.
And yes, I really hate winding the SW-200 in my Oris also. The crown feels like a loose tooth, I always feel like I'm doing damage, due to the horrible sandpapery feeling. I also had the reverser wheel issue, and had to send the watch in to be repaired. I have had similar issues with another watch which is a 2824 derivative, so I am avoiding all movements in that family tree from now on.
When I bought my GS Spring Drive, I had to ask the AD if it was supposed to feel that way. I have come to really enjoy it, but it feels very different to my other watches. It has a tight, "squeaky" feel.
I think the best crown feel I have is actually the Omega 8806, which just feels solid and strong and well built, and strangely feels completely different to the 8500/8900 movements. My Rolex 3186 movement feels good to wind also, and gives satisfying feedback.
Your descriptions are spot-on, based on my experience. I have an Omega with an 8500 movement (basically the same as the 8900, other than the testing done), and it has always felt fairly stiff to wind, even after its service. It is smooth and sturdy feeling... But offers no feedback.
And yes, I really hate winding the SW-200 in my Oris also. The crown feels like a loose tooth, I always feel like I'm doing damage, due to the horrible sandpapery feeling. I also had the reverser wheel issue, and had to send the watch in to be repaired. I have had similar issues with another watch which is a 2824 derivative, so I am avoiding all movements in that family tree from now on.
When I bought my GS Spring Drive, I had to ask the AD if it was supposed to feel that way. I have come to really enjoy it, but it feels very different to my other watches. It has a tight, "squeaky" feel.
I think the best crown feel I have is actually the Omega 8806, which just feels solid and strong and well built, and strangely feels completely different to the 8500/8900 movements. My Rolex 3186 movement feels good to wind also, and gives satisfying feedback.
Very interesting. This was the point of the thread! I am avoiding SW-200 watches too. I have a Monta Noble on order and it's an SW-300. I wonder if that will make a difference? I hope so.
I've experienced the same with the sw200. However, I've found that it also depends on the manufacturer. Some are better than others at installing the movement. I'm surprised Oris isn't better.
I believe these issues were resolved in the sw200-2 (ETA 2824-2) versions.
Incidentally, this is also why I'm growing more appreciative of the nh35. Hand winding it is actually very pleasant. Little feedback but also little resistance. It's easy to wind.
I don't disagree. I have a 4R36, which I think is the same internal Seiko code that the NH35 is externally and I actually like winding those watches. My Tuna is a 4R36.
Sw200 and ETA2824 family movements have an overwinding issue where a gear strips. Try not to wind it more than 6 turns to get it started and let the automatic do the rest. Overall they are solid movements. Manual wind is overrated
I actually did not know that. Good to know. I doubt I have ever overwinded it to that degree, but I usually give it 20-30 turns, not 6. I'll be more mindful going forward.
I guess I would put it like this; my Sellita sw510 automatic has a very luxurious, high-end, responsive and tactile feel - way more so than my ETA 2824-2s and Miyota 9075; the latter of which's crown is much easier to turn with practically zero tactile resistance when winding - dare I say it's "cheap feeling", relatively speaking, anyway. Hope that helps.
Handwinders will always let you know when to stop.
Automatics can be handwound until the cows come home since they have a "clutch" mechanism to prevent inadvertent over winding.
If the rotor spins while winding it's a fairly common event and an easy fix for a watchmaker.
I believe you but wonder why my new Sellita SW510 automatic feels like - if I keep winding it, anyway - it's going to break the resistance becomes so great? What do you guys think, here?
I believe you but wonder why my new Sellita SW510 automatic feels like - if I keep winding it, anyway - it's going to break the resistance becomes so great? What do you guys think, here?
I have a movement like that, but it's a vintage watch, the only one in my collection and it's hand wound, not automatic. I thought all automatics could not be overwound? Might not be good for the movement to overwind, but nothing should theoretically "break" by doing so.