If a company doesn't produce their own movements - it's not a watch company.

Ehh, respectfully disagree. I’m sure all watch companies would love to be in house movements but that’s not in the cards for them and that would mean there would be alot less options and affordability for us. some companies are really good at designing the esthetics of a watch and use a reliable movement to go with it. I’m ok with that.

I do not contradict that and not talk about why or what would change if...

IMHO the fact is that these are just watch design companies that in fact sell some really great (designed) watches.

I'm fine with this. I'd prefer companies to specialize at that in which they excel. I was going to equate case makers with coach builders as I want a return of the latter. But I realized that we have the analogy of how supercars and exotics have become vastly improved by using more mass-produced powertrains from larger companies.

I don't exactly want oligopolies but there is little point in reinventing the wheel for rather basic movements. Economies of scale, yadda yadda, but at least let there by a world of independent styles available.

Agree 100%

Theyre watch assemblers.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing - more choice for us 😁👍🏻

I agree :-) So a nice option would be to choose the design + (separate) movement. "You design the case."

An in-house movement only makes sense if you either want to show of your artisan effort that went into building the watch, or you have something to actually improve upon a standard movement. (Cutting costs compared to a standard movement is included in that, too. A SISTEM51 is an in-house movement.)

A fairly decent effort goes into the case and the dial. Truth be told, I would expect most buyers in the non-luxury segment to be focused on those two aspects of the watch, and not the movement.

This is taking the concept of in-house movements to a rather unreasonable point, in my opinion.

Many craftsmen and artists through history have bought the more complex parts and incorporated them into their own artistry, and nobody claims their work is now lessened.

I do not say it's a bad thing 😉

I love my microbrand watches ❤ as I do not care about the movement that much.

I think watch is more than movement, it also includes case, strap, bracelet.

Just like I will not wear a watch movement on my hand, and call it a watch.

Nor will I call Apple a watch company just because it created iwatch and it's in-house movement (iOS) and chips.

The "movements" of Apple watch ain't "produced" by Apple. They are produced by TSMC. The watches themselves are assembled by Quanta computer.

I was about to comment further on this. What does the OP mean by "produced"? Apparently, there are firms specialized in movement assembly. In other words, some watchmakers design their movements but don't have capacity to actually produce it at scale and contract the actual metal fabrication to others. These movements are very much "inhouse," but still not "produced" by the company whose name is on the watch.

Honestly most watch enthusiasts are also mostly concerned with the dial (at least at first). If the dial isn’t there then I don’t care about the movement. We’re all superficial creatures after all 😂

I often see people bemoan prices for watches that have off the shelf movements as if design and finishing isn’t worth anything. Watches are priced the way they are bc people are willing to pay those prices, bc labor hours need be considered, bc names and associations can matter to our wallets like it or not.

And many companies while not making their own movements have artisan level dial work, are making their own hands, and many def are regulating and finishing the movements they do use. Simply doesn’t make sense for many companies to have their own movements. And from an owner perspective it’s much simpler and cost effective to service a Miyota or ETA or Sellita etc

Historically speaking that’s a tough statement to make. I think everyone gets the point. The movement is the heart of the watch.

There’s an interview with the CEO of Selita where he talks about them building the in house movements for numerous companies. Movements that aren’t just modified sw200 but actual bespoke pieces.

I think there’s such a vast range in the watch world. From assembling watches out of mass production parts lots, to the slightly customizable ones and true bespoke ones.

Personally I’d say don’t pay bespoke prices for NH, Selita, Miyota powered pieces.

This is a question designed to stir up anger. It seems that only watch-snobs really care about "in house". What on earth would you call Ford, Toyota, Boeing, Airbus, Nvidia, Intel and just about every other manufactured brand?

Honestly most watch enthusiasts are also mostly concerned with the dial. If the dial isn’t there then I don’t care about the movement. We’re all superficial creatures after all 😂

Right, it's that, and as far as mechanical movements are concerned, we are dealing in anachronisms. You can't innovate without risking your heritage, or making the movement too "modern". The Spring Drive movement is such an example.

Dont think that stands up in my opinion

That's like saying that a car company isn't a car company if they don't make all their own parts.

Many car companies including Ford use other car companies engines.

Kurono/ Hajime Asaoka is an interesting example:

Both designer:

And a watchmaker. Asaoka-san literally makes the entire watch by hand 😮

What a dude 👏👏👏

I'm not snobby, if you actually read my comment you'll understand I'm saying that over 99.999% of watches have movements made in a factory on an assembly line

Arguing about who owns that assembly line is utter nonsense. Whether it's a myota, a seiko, or a VC, that movement ran down a factory line

"In house" is just a brand flexing they can buy a manufacturer or buy a line in a manufacturer

Thanks Alan Absolutely agree , now just to spell his watch brand correctly:) my bad … 😃

😜All good my friend - I know Japanese language but will fail if I try to spell something like AL&S!

My wife is Thai Alan and I am very bad at her language, you sound like you have tried a lot harder to learn Kanji and Japanese. I love Japanese culture, it very much resonates with my sense of ascetic. Thai language isn’t hard vocal gymnastics wise but complex to learn to read their 47 characters and multiple variations with added symbols to change meanings and sounds !!! Bends my mind 🙂

Great, so watches are only for the super rich who can afford the hand man hours of making a movement?

What about that?

I'm not snobby, if you actually read my comment you'll understand I'm saying that over 99.999% of watches have movements made in a factory on an assembly line

So what? Again: I don't consider that being a watch design company as a bad thing.

Read previous posts first ;-)

So it was a watch design company that became a watch company. 😜

Technically it is not a watch company, it is a metal, watch design, movement, metal polisher, metal brushed, glass cutter company.

I totally agree. A company is a watchmaker if it has at least one in-house caliber. Otherwise, it's just a factory for assembling various items or a design agency. There are not a lot of real watch companies.

Now when I have your attention:

Wouldn’t it be cool if when ordering a watch you could choose a movement? Quartz/automatic? What kind of power reserve? Accuracy rating? Type of quartz (smooth, gmt, classic)?

😶‍🌫️🤓

Pagani Automobiles are powered by Mercedes engines, are they not still cars?

Read the whole thread 🧵 It got covered already 🤣