A question of reality

You’re paying for marketing and name recognition, yes. And for R&D as well. But also for proven functionality and reliability. And the peace of mind that comes with that. You’re also getting a warranty for a certain amount of time. And the ability to have the watch serviced by professionals after that period. And then there’s resale value if that matters to you. I’m not saying I feel one way or the other about clones but there are definitely legitimate and sometimes tangible benefits to buying a “real” watch over a fake. IMHO, of course :)

The real problem is trademark law. Those watches mostly outlived their patents and can be reproduced legally but not with the original brand name. Invicta and Pagani get it right but anyone using them to commit fraud by charging real prices for fakes is wrong. Reproductions have to have features that guarantee they are not mistaken for original.

As I understand it the clones aren't true clones of the movement, they're lookalikes with dummy cogs etc.

So they're cheaper because they're using lesser movements, that aren't COSC, and probably not adjusted, lesser finishing (though to the eye they're on a par), never precious metal (I guess some are plated?). On the plus side you're not paying for the brand name, or the ridiculous marketing budgets, or the luxury profit margins.

All I have to say is wind the clone then wind the real deal. I’m 1000% certain if it’s a “clone” movement it will feel like a wind up toy.

I owned one high end clone, all did was make me want to hide my wrist and feel like a fraud. But I also felt that about some homages I’ve owned owned in the past that are too close to the orginal.

Aside from all the other finer points of mechanics, longevity, etc. It comes down to "you" knowing you have a clone on your wrist. There are folks that can live with that and some that refuse. Authenticity matters...

I’ve seen fakes in Turkey. Most of them are easily recognizable fakes

They showed me a box of 1:1 fakes. Those look almost identical. But all of them have really loud Miyota movement inside. I could hear it from 3 meters away.

I asked them how do you service those watches? They say “Come back to Turkey, bring it to my shop”

These are not for me. I can forsee these watches get broken after 2 years.

I think we can all agree these are first world problems. I wouldn’t buy or wear a replica or clone/fake, as I would know the difference, even if others did not. Unless you’re out to flex, then who are you really trying to flex to and with what?

On the flip side, I’m all for buying generic drugs over name brand as we all know drug companies are just crooked (whether morally or actually criminally). As long as the drugs are proven safe and effective, doesn’t matter if they’re from Target, Walmart, Costco, or others. Maybe if there was an agency certifying clones/replicas that they won’t fall apart after a few uses.

My reason to avoid replicas or fakes, especially when I know what watch I really want, is...I want customer service, spare parts, reputable QC/quality, resale value, and serviceability in the future. None of which you get with a replica/fake. I don't think they are completely unspeakable and evil like most of the watch community make them out to be, but they're also not for me. You're either the type of person that appreciates history, craftsmanship, and future serviceability, or you like "fast fashion" and prefer fakes as a way to get a quick "rush" without concern about future serviceability...they're disposable. I think either way, whichever way you cut it, real or fakes, you'll end up hurting your wallet if you're bit by the "watch collecting bug".

Its an interesting road. If you buy an absolute clone of a Rolex, in every way, is it inferior? I don't think that you CAN buy a clone of a high end watch for a 'fake watch price'. Fake watches are designed to be cheaper - otherwise there is no point - and you couldn't get the parts and finishing at Rolex standards and homage prices. So, there must be corners cut, and so a portion of the 'value' of the original is in the parts and finishing. Its tangible.

But the second part of this is 'if I made a Porsche in my garden taking apart a genuine one and copying every part to make a duplicate, is it the same level as a genuine Porsche'. No. Its not just about the parts. The watchmakers have years of experience in the big companies and get paid a lot for it. So, how about a Rolex watchmaker who steals parts and takes them home to build his own at home, is THAT the same as a Rolex? No, I don't think so. If its built on Rolex grounds, it goes through checks and there are associated warranties and guarantees about the product which are associated with the brand, and you get the brand cache, which is important to some people.

So, the difference between a $1K clone and an $8K clone is made up of; parts and finishing, technician experience and tools available, assurance and guarantees, and brand recognition and and reliance.... whether that is worth the extra cost then becomes a personal decision.

If you are into the 'flex' of wearing a baller watch to the extent of sporting a fake- you're not a watch enthusiast, you are a wealth enthusiast. We can debate the true 'value/quality/heritage equations' of high end brands till the cows come home, but at the end of the day the guy wearing the Faux-lex is a poser, and those who know- will know. I get way more excited when I see a dude with 'insert any microbrand, homage brand, or lesser known traditional brand here' than I get when I see dude with a Rolex or AP because they bought the watches for the love of watches. Homages are fine, wanting an aesthetic is fine too- but counterfeits of a lux brand are for shallow folks.

How about the Omega guys that built a fake with Omega parts and sold it at auction for millions before getting busted.

You wont appreciate the difference unless you hold the real thing. Of course, a copy is really a copy because it seeks to imitate the real thing. And that is what it is, a mere copy. If you try to pass it off as the real thing, then you are just fooling yourself.. that said, whats to stop you from buying, even appreciating, any of the affordable and genuine watches instead of some fakes/replicas? Those too are well worth considering

I can’t be in support of a fake for its moral stand point. I can how ever be all for a homage honestly. Even a 1:1 copy is fine with me as long as the company logo isn’t faked. I have a lot of respect for the luxury companies but they price there watches way way to high

I think everyone should be able to own a luxury watch at some point and be able to aspire to it. But 8-10k come on

Every luxury brand should have 2-3 designs in 2k max. I think that’s fair

I find wearing fake watches a very weird thing. Putting aside the support for organised crime and all of that stuff, we know - as watch people - that 99.999% of people out there in society couldn't give a flying one what's on your wrist - or even if something is on your wrist at all. They really couldn't. Watches are antiquated to most people. Given that, a person wearing a fake must be wearing it for themselves... yet they know it's a fake. LOL. That's madness. I don't see the appeal there. What a truly weird situation.

Putting aside counterfeiters that sell you fake Rolexes and such, what's a clone vs "homage?" The term homage is used loosely in watchlandia and covers those that draw inspiration from benchmark watches as well as nearly exact replicas. I turned off JOMW because I found myself falling into the trap of thinking I could score a watch that is as good as the original. They're usually not. If you want to by an AliExpress clone from Pagani, Steeldive, etc. go ahead and your getting a good watch for under $100 in most cases. However, I don't view them as stepping stones to buying the real thing.

First a truism - manufacture is easy, design is hard and making you want a design is hardest of all.

More than anything you are paying for risk and some special magic. A creator doesnt know if a watch is going to be successful until after a huge investment - they are likely to have a bunch of failures they've paid for that went nowhere that have spending to be recouped. Even after they have a hit they have to keep trying to find the next winner. So they need to be charging a little now to pay for teams designing watches and campaigns you might not see for years.

If you've got a great designer and/or great marketers, thats really not cheap, truly great designers and sellers are as rare as rocking horse shit and demand payment to match.

Fakes and replicas are like those guys catching an uber to the finish of a marathon and running across the line with their hands in the air. They do none of the hard stuff, they pick the eyes out of others work, only backing sure things and dont need to sell it to you because someone else has already done that already. No need to maintain a design staff because they'll just copy something from someone else later

As a great photographer once said - screw imitation, payment is the sincerest form of flattery. If you value design pay for it, if you dont, pick up a fake or a knock-off - but dont pretend you care about watches.

Not to get side tracked but...finding/creating/developing a drug is ridiculously expensive and, more frequently then not, results in failure (failed clinical trials is common) so I don't think it's fair to call all drug companies crooked. If they can't make money off of their patents then they won't have critical funds for research and development to create new drugs (that can make lives better and potentially save lives). (PS. I don't work in the Pharmaceutical industry but I have done research in the area in the past). That being said I buy generics (drugs off their patents) and I don't have any replica watches😀

And to add to your point- the majority of people dont care enough to take a second look, but those who actually notice your watch and engage you about it- are the same people who will likely see that's its a fake.