Vintage Watch Research Resources?
How do you all usually go about researching vintage finds?
I get as much info as I can off the dial / caseback and start google rabbit-holing, but there must be a more efficient way. Any thoughts?
Pictured is a nice surprise from this weekend. A 34mm Caravelle manual watch with an Explorer-style dial that I found in a flea market bin for 10 dollars. Would love to more about it, but I've hit a wall. Guessing 1960's.
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Nicholas
No idea what day it is.
Member since
Last active: 2 hrs ago
6.75” / 17.15 cm
Ranfft Watches is one
Ranfft Watches is one
Oh, cool. I'll check it out, thanks!
It is all rabbit holes. That's part of the vintage game. And then little bits of information stick in your brain and you begin to know stuff. Like that Caravelle was started in 1962. So, definitely 1960's. The post and comments here have many links that can be useful.
Bulova started the Caravelle line to compete with Timex. Timex had perfected no jewel or minimal jewel movements and were eating into the bottom of the American watch market. Timex claimed the scalp of Elgin in 1968. That year Caravelle became the best selling jeweled watch in the United States.
Caravelle usually had 7 jewel movements, although fully jeweled movements were often available. These were meant to be less expensive watches but with the quality of a Bulova. In the late 1960's many of the movements were outsourced to a Japanese upstart named Citizen. Twenty years later Citizen bought Bulova and Caravelle.
As vintage goes, Bulova and its sub-brands Westfield and Caravelle are low risk. The internet can tell you a lot, but less about the sub-brands.
Pop the back
It is all rabbit holes. That's part of the vintage game. And then little bits of information stick in your brain and you begin to know stuff. Like that Caravelle was started in 1962. So, definitely 1960's. The post and comments here have many links that can be useful.
Bulova started the Caravelle line to compete with Timex. Timex had perfected no jewel or minimal jewel movements and were eating into the bottom of the American watch market. Timex claimed the scalp of Elgin in 1968. That year Caravelle became the best selling jeweled watch in the United States.
Caravelle usually had 7 jewel movements, although fully jeweled movements were often available. These were meant to be less expensive watches but with the quality of a Bulova. In the late 1960's many of the movements were outsourced to a Japanese upstart named Citizen. Twenty years later Citizen bought Bulova and Caravelle.
As vintage goes, Bulova and its sub-brands Westfield and Caravelle are low risk. The internet can tell you a lot, but less about the sub-brands.
Great info, thanks. I knew Caravelle was owned by Bulova but didn't realize the connection to Citizen.
Pop the back
I definitely do that when I'm out of options haha
I definitely do that when I'm out of options haha
Out of options? If you pop the back, you can check the movement and can date the watch. It tells you everything.
Out of options? If you pop the back, you can check the movement and can date the watch. It tells you everything.
I get what you're saying. Yes, I do that.
I picked this up locally the other day too - it's quite similar to yours, with the champagne dial. I've not heard of the brand Bersay, and can't find much online about them. It's a mechanical, says it's Swiss made on the case back. It keeps good time. I like the red seconds hand.
I picked this up locally the other day too - it's quite similar to yours, with the champagne dial. I've not heard of the brand Bersay, and can't find much online about them. It's a mechanical, says it's Swiss made on the case back. It keeps good time. I like the red seconds hand.
Beautiful!
I picked this up locally the other day too - it's quite similar to yours, with the champagne dial. I've not heard of the brand Bersay, and can't find much online about them. It's a mechanical, says it's Swiss made on the case back. It keeps good time. I like the red seconds hand.
Again - pop the back. No movement pics, nothing to go on.
You could ask the folks on mybulova.com
You could ask the folks on mybulova.com
I'll check it out, thanks! This was more of a general question, since I encounter a lot of weird old watches. Just wondering how everyone does their research.
I'll check it out, thanks! This was more of a general question, since I encounter a lot of weird old watches. Just wondering how everyone does their research.
By popping the back and looking at the movement...
I agree with @Porthole that anyone researching vintage definitely needs to look inside the case.
Some brands, e.g. Omega, put a lot of helpful information inside the caseback. For example, my Seamaster has the reference number 135.003-62-SC. That tells me not only the specific "model" (135.003) which can be cross-referenced to Omega's own vintage database, but also the year it was manufactured (1962). There is also an icon that identifies the case manufacturer.
Engravings on the movement are also helpful. Movements often have a unique serial number, though sometimes it might be engraved in a location not visible without disassembly. That serial number may be cross-referenced with unofficial databases available on line, and, with some brands, you can use it to query for official information. For example, here what Omega can tell about a watch given its movement serial number (999000012377 in this case).
But you also have to accept that sometimes the information will be scarce. A lot of Swiss brands went out of business during the quartz crisis in the 1970s, and some of those still around aren't really the same company any more. Records for those watches are probably lost and gone forever. For example, I have watches from Camy (no longer in existence) and Delbana (not the same company) that I know next to nothing about. I can estimate their manufacture date based on the popularity of the styles, but that's about it. But that doesn't detract from enjoying them.
I agree with @Porthole that anyone researching vintage definitely needs to look inside the case.
Some brands, e.g. Omega, put a lot of helpful information inside the caseback. For example, my Seamaster has the reference number 135.003-62-SC. That tells me not only the specific "model" (135.003) which can be cross-referenced to Omega's own vintage database, but also the year it was manufactured (1962). There is also an icon that identifies the case manufacturer.
Engravings on the movement are also helpful. Movements often have a unique serial number, though sometimes it might be engraved in a location not visible without disassembly. That serial number may be cross-referenced with unofficial databases available on line, and, with some brands, you can use it to query for official information. For example, here what Omega can tell about a watch given its movement serial number (999000012377 in this case).
But you also have to accept that sometimes the information will be scarce. A lot of Swiss brands went out of business during the quartz crisis in the 1970s, and some of those still around aren't really the same company any more. Records for those watches are probably lost and gone forever. For example, I have watches from Camy (no longer in existence) and Delbana (not the same company) that I know next to nothing about. I can estimate their manufacture date based on the popularity of the styles, but that's about it. But that doesn't detract from enjoying them.
That's great, thanks!
Yes I definitely do open case backs and get what I can from engravings, what I was asking was more where everyone goes with that information once they have it (data bases, watch specific search sites etc)
Yes, lost brands are such a fun (and sometimes frustrating!) mystery. Just got a handful of WW2 era watches this week and though some of the brands like Royce still have some examples on the internet, many of them seem to have been erased by time. The irony!
That's really going to vary by watch. On the internet there are obviously brand-specific forums for Omega, Rolex, Bulova, etc. There are also forums dedicated to specific types of watchs (e.g. The Military Watch Resource or the Pocket Watch Database). More general resources would be the Vintage & Pocket watches forum on watchuseek or the Vintage Watches subreddit.
YouTube channels that focus on watch restorations (not reviews) can also be helpful. Some of the ones I follow include Watchistory, Omega Enthusiast, Vintage Watch Services, or even Wristwatch Revival. The latter is my favorite because Marshall does such a great job of creating interesting videos, though it's somewhat less useful as an authoritative source of information.
Another source of info is listings from reputable auction sites, though I always take those with massive quantities of salt.
There are also printed books with a lot of information, but the best will be for specific watch brands or types. Examples include The Concise Guide to Military Timepieces, Omega 30mm Chronometer, Marine Nationale. But be prepared to spend. The good ones cost a lot of money.
Some brands (famously Longines and also Omega) have an active heritage department that will research a watch (for a fee, in the case of Omega).
That's really going to vary by watch. On the internet there are obviously brand-specific forums for Omega, Rolex, Bulova, etc. There are also forums dedicated to specific types of watchs (e.g. The Military Watch Resource or the Pocket Watch Database). More general resources would be the Vintage & Pocket watches forum on watchuseek or the Vintage Watches subreddit.
YouTube channels that focus on watch restorations (not reviews) can also be helpful. Some of the ones I follow include Watchistory, Omega Enthusiast, Vintage Watch Services, or even Wristwatch Revival. The latter is my favorite because Marshall does such a great job of creating interesting videos, though it's somewhat less useful as an authoritative source of information.
Another source of info is listings from reputable auction sites, though I always take those with massive quantities of salt.
There are also printed books with a lot of information, but the best will be for specific watch brands or types. Examples include The Concise Guide to Military Timepieces, Omega 30mm Chronometer, Marine Nationale. But be prepared to spend. The good ones cost a lot of money.
Some brands (famously Longines and also Omega) have an active heritage department that will research a watch (for a fee, in the case of Omega).
Excellent info, so glad I asked. Thanks!
Again - pop the back. No movement pics, nothing to go on.