Wine and watches
People spend a lot on wine and talk a lot of BS: "it smells of wet dog", "I can taste the mountains" etc
Watches are similar: "I sense the hand craftsmanship of the Zairatsu polishing", "the hand guilloche dial is crisper than any machine could ever achieve" etc
BUT...
The wine world has developed a way of cutting through the BS: Blind Tasting.
In a blind tasting bottles are disguised under covers, everything's served in identical glasses and people simply rate on how the wine looks and tastes. They don't know the country, the brand or the price.
That means objective ratings and results like Californian wines beating French ones all the way back in the 70s - the famous "judgement of Paris" competition.
How could we introduce something similar into the watch world? Could you really tell the difference between Zairatsu and machine polishing on a piece of steel? I certainly couldn't.
What would "blind tasting" for watches look like?
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Wow — you think the watch world is effed up, the wine industry is next level nuts. The industrial/corporate wine complex leads us by the nose. Wine tasting is hocus pocus led by a handful of influencers like Parker, Galloni, Robinson and their progeny to name a few. Organic could be great but the biodynamic movement is voodoo. Don’t know where to start with Orange wine.
I know nothing about wine but with watches history and fashion play a huge role in desirability. Everyone knows you can buy technically better watches than the most popular but they aren't as fashionable or have the same history.
I prefer the brown water over grape juice. As for watches, no idea how to achieve the impartiality. Cheers! 🥃
Wow — you think the watch world is effed up, the wine industry is next level nuts. The industrial/corporate wine complex leads us by the nose. Wine tasting is hocus pocus led by a handful of influencers like Parker, Galloni, Robinson and their progeny to name a few. Organic could be great but the biodynamic movement is voodoo. Don’t know where to start with Orange wine.
None of Parker et al blind taste. I'd put them firmly in the BS category.
I know nothing about wine but with watches history and fashion play a huge role in desirability. Everyone knows you can buy technically better watches than the most popular but they aren't as fashionable or have the same history.
I 100% agree. The problem is that many people justify their expenditure on the basis of superior "specs" or "quality" rathe than "I think this is a brand which will make me look cool".
None of Parker et al blind taste. I'd put them firmly in the BS category.
That's what I like to hear. I am intrigued.
I treat watches like I treat wine. If you like it, consume it. Not your taste? Don’t get it. Too expensive or cheap? Value is different for everyone. Doesn’t matter what others say about it. Enjoy what you have.
I wonder how much brain power it takes to admire a watch 🤔
https://www.iflscience.com/is-wine-tasting-really-more-engaging-than-solving-a-maths-problem-41150
Things I've found that tell something about a watch. I've used this primarily to test my ability to spot fakes. These are by no means infallible:
If an auto watch, shake the watch - can you hear the rotor? Usually (I say usually, not every time) with less expensive movements you can hear the rotor spinning.
If a mechanical watch, wind the watch. In my experience, if you hear a scraping/grinding sound, it's probably a ETA/Sellita movement. If the winding experience is very smooth, with little resistance, but you can still hear/feel the gears 'clicking', then it's most likely in-house.
If the watch has a rotating bezel, give it a spin. Is it slightly tight, but audible? When you wiggle the bezel, side-to-side (without moving it to the next click), is there any give?
I’ve never had a blind tasting watches that tasted like wet dog 😉
Things I've found that tell something about a watch. I've used this primarily to test my ability to spot fakes. These are by no means infallible:
If an auto watch, shake the watch - can you hear the rotor? Usually (I say usually, not every time) with less expensive movements you can hear the rotor spinning.
If a mechanical watch, wind the watch. In my experience, if you hear a scraping/grinding sound, it's probably a ETA/Sellita movement. If the winding experience is very smooth, with little resistance, but you can still hear/feel the gears 'clicking', then it's most likely in-house.
If the watch has a rotating bezel, give it a spin. Is it slightly tight, but audible? When you wiggle the bezel, side-to-side (without moving it to the next click), is there any give?
Every Omega and Tudor automatic I’ve had had rotor noise, some just as much as much less expensive watches. I don’t feel like rotor noise is bad nor is it necessarily a giveaway to the quality of a watch.
Every Omega and Tudor automatic I’ve had had rotor noise, some just as much as much less expensive watches. I don’t feel like rotor noise is bad nor is it necessarily a giveaway to the quality of a watch.
Again, not infallible, so take this advice with a pinch of salt. Also want to point out that I'm in no way suggesting anything about quality. A noisy rotor on a movement may keep as good a time as a COSC certified movement from a big brand. For the sake of this test, I'm just pointing 'tells' that could help with identifying a watch, without actually being able to see it.
I can only talk from my experience with a sample size of 8:
My Seiko 5 has very pronounced (almost whirring) rotor noise.
My ETA/Selitta based watches have rotor noise, albeit less harsh/pronounced than my Seiko 5.
My Cartier, Rolex and Tudor watches have only a slight knocking rotor noise.
Well, i agree wine and other liquor tastings and such is junk. And I suppose there are some snobs who hate on watches with no real reason.
I think giving credit where it's due is a good start and admitting that practically every watch brand has had some stinkers among their products if they've been around for long enough. Others have their faults and sometimes those faults are due to cost considerations.
It's a matter of balance and a reviewer has to be honest with their own bias. Then there needs ro he discernment among consumers about what they see vs someone else. Ultimately, you may find treasure where someone sees trash.
Ethanol is ethanol is ethanol at the end of the day and it reeellly doesn’t help a water based life form function very well . Like sugar and salt less is best . My logic is undeniable ( trouble is it is highly entertaining ) 😂
Wow — you think the watch world is effed up, the wine industry is next level nuts. The industrial/corporate wine complex leads us by the nose. Wine tasting is hocus pocus led by a handful of influencers like Parker, Galloni, Robinson and their progeny to name a few. Organic could be great but the biodynamic movement is voodoo. Don’t know where to start with Orange wine.
Didn’t some guy go out of his way to buy the cheapest swill ever, slap a fancy label on it, and blow the competition away?
IIRC the wine was some $3 stuff!
Didn’t some guy go out of his way to buy the cheapest swill ever, slap a fancy label on it, and blow the competition away?
IIRC the wine was some $3 stuff!
Don’t know but there have been plenty of scams - https://www.eater.com/drinks/2017/8/9/16112328/in-vino-duplicitas-rudy-kurniawan-peter-hellman
I know nothing about wine but with watches history and fashion play a huge role in desirability. Everyone knows you can buy technically better watches than the most popular but they aren't as fashionable or have the same history.
I agree. My issue is with statements like "the finishing of this big brand $5k watch is in a different league to that $500 watch". Unless the comparison is made blind without knowing which watch is which, it's completely invalid because of bias caused by knowing the brand and the price of the two watches.
I can't see a way of introducing a blind tasting for watches, I just wish people would be aware of the subjective bias in any comparison.
I treat watches like I treat wine. If you like it, consume it. Not your taste? Don’t get it. Too expensive or cheap? Value is different for everyone. Doesn’t matter what others say about it. Enjoy what you have.
100% true. My problem is when people say things like "the finishing of this big brand $5k watch is in a different league to that $500 watch". Or "once you handle an expensive watch, you can tell the difference in the finishing".
Similar statements are common in watch reviews without any awareness by the author that they are so biased by knowing the brand and price of the watch that the statement is pretty much worthless.
I agree. My issue is with statements like "the finishing of this big brand $5k watch is in a different league to that $500 watch". Unless the comparison is made blind without knowing which watch is which, it's completely invalid because of bias caused by knowing the brand and the price of the two watches.
I can't see a way of introducing a blind tasting for watches, I just wish people would be aware of the subjective bias in any comparison.
I agree. And when you need to use a magnifying glass to show the difference because it's invisible to the human eye you have to question the point of it anyway.
Again, not infallible, so take this advice with a pinch of salt. Also want to point out that I'm in no way suggesting anything about quality. A noisy rotor on a movement may keep as good a time as a COSC certified movement from a big brand. For the sake of this test, I'm just pointing 'tells' that could help with identifying a watch, without actually being able to see it.
I can only talk from my experience with a sample size of 8:
My Seiko 5 has very pronounced (almost whirring) rotor noise.
My ETA/Selitta based watches have rotor noise, albeit less harsh/pronounced than my Seiko 5.
My Cartier, Rolex and Tudor watches have only a slight knocking rotor noise.
This is an interesting idea. You could blindfold people and get them to test a series of watches by winding them. I bet that many wouldn't be able to distinguish between the supposedly silky smooth expensive movements and the grindy cheap ones if they couldn't see the brand on the dial.
Well, i agree wine and other liquor tastings and such is junk. And I suppose there are some snobs who hate on watches with no real reason.
I think giving credit where it's due is a good start and admitting that practically every watch brand has had some stinkers among their products if they've been around for long enough. Others have their faults and sometimes those faults are due to cost considerations.
It's a matter of balance and a reviewer has to be honest with their own bias. Then there needs ro he discernment among consumers about what they see vs someone else. Ultimately, you may find treasure where someone sees trash.
Spot on. My issue is with reviewers and owners making statements about finishing and quality while completely unaware of their own subjective bias.
Didn’t some guy go out of his way to buy the cheapest swill ever, slap a fancy label on it, and blow the competition away?
IIRC the wine was some $3 stuff!
There have been many scandals involving fake wine. For example, French producers trucking Spanish grapes over the border and passing them off as French when there's been a bad harvest. Or outright fakes involving relabeling or refilling genuine bottles.
This is an interesting idea. You could blindfold people and get them to test a series of watches by winding them. I bet that many wouldn't be able to distinguish between the supposedly silky smooth expensive movements and the grindy cheap ones if they couldn't see the brand on the dial.
You definitely need to handle a few watches with ETAs/Sellitas vs in-house movements to be able to feel and hear the difference.
Have you ever wound a few blindfolded?