Features of the Future

In this article, Marathon Watch Co. president, Mitchell Wein, talks about what various military orgs are suggesting will be needed in their newest commission specs.

Image

What do you think about that?

What features could be added to a watch that might "need" to be exposed to radiation in order to keep it working well?

Reply
·

Use a little lead lining in the watch case. I'm far from an expert in this area. But I probably would bet there is a member here that does lol

🍻

·

They need 50 million sunblock and forget the watch just run...

·

Interesting read UJ!

·

Ohhh, radiation exposure is tricky business. I actually deal with this in my line of work. Making devices that can withstand radioactive environments is very tricky since materials become contaminated and the decontamination process is very cumbersome and expensive. It also eats away at electronics and soft rubbers so the shielding is critical.

That said, I assume the watches being exposed have a human wearing them. Which means the human has to have rad protection clothing on themselves and maybe the watch is worn external to that. So this means it would only be momentary exposure not prolonged. If that's the case you really just need a watch that can be easily surface cleaned after entering these environments. SS works pretty well in that respect, but you have to see if the watch internals won't be affected over time. Honestly, they're probably pretty resistant to it as they are now since they have a sealed case. What would make them better is if the entire case was a single part, loading the movement and dial from the top so the only place of sealing is the crown and crystal. You would forego the easy back access and rotating bezel but it would create less crevices for radioactive particles to get "trapped". Liquid also slows down radiation so you could fill the case with oil or water possibly. Option B is to have watches dedicated to rad work so you keep them locked away safely. Still need to clean them, but they don't get released into public space.

As you may know, Marathon already use Tritium inside the micro glass tubes placed on the markers and hands. Tritium only emits Beta which is a low level particle that can't even penetrate skin easily but can be ingested. Alpha is another low level type out there, even weaker than Beta. Gamma and Neutron radiation are the ones you really need to worry about since those require the heavy concrete or lead shielding. But if strong fields of those are present, you won't be sending Humans in there as it would be fatal. We can only withstand low levels of Gamma and no Netrons (those like to split our cells in real nasty ways).

In any case, watches going into rad zones is not a new thing. Back when we were less strict with health and safety measures I'm sure lots of workers and soldiers walked around rad fields without even knowing it. They all wore watches back then.

·
tonmed

Ohhh, radiation exposure is tricky business. I actually deal with this in my line of work. Making devices that can withstand radioactive environments is very tricky since materials become contaminated and the decontamination process is very cumbersome and expensive. It also eats away at electronics and soft rubbers so the shielding is critical.

That said, I assume the watches being exposed have a human wearing them. Which means the human has to have rad protection clothing on themselves and maybe the watch is worn external to that. So this means it would only be momentary exposure not prolonged. If that's the case you really just need a watch that can be easily surface cleaned after entering these environments. SS works pretty well in that respect, but you have to see if the watch internals won't be affected over time. Honestly, they're probably pretty resistant to it as they are now since they have a sealed case. What would make them better is if the entire case was a single part, loading the movement and dial from the top so the only place of sealing is the crown and crystal. You would forego the easy back access and rotating bezel but it would create less crevices for radioactive particles to get "trapped". Liquid also slows down radiation so you could fill the case with oil or water possibly. Option B is to have watches dedicated to rad work so you keep them locked away safely. Still need to clean them, but they don't get released into public space.

As you may know, Marathon already use Tritium inside the micro glass tubes placed on the markers and hands. Tritium only emits Beta which is a low level particle that can't even penetrate skin easily but can be ingested. Alpha is another low level type out there, even weaker than Beta. Gamma and Neutron radiation are the ones you really need to worry about since those require the heavy concrete or lead shielding. But if strong fields of those are present, you won't be sending Humans in there as it would be fatal. We can only withstand low levels of Gamma and no Netrons (those like to split our cells in real nasty ways).

In any case, watches going into rad zones is not a new thing. Back when we were less strict with health and safety measures I'm sure lots of workers and soldiers walked around rad fields without even knowing it. They all wore watches back then.

Great info! Thanks for your reply!

·

I think the radiation spec they reference is more magnetic and emp based against electronic watches which is what most military members wear in the field... these vintage automatics will do just fine...

The technical brief maybe creating a one off as a proof of concept or developing it for space force... more radiation in space. Still operationally going to affect electronic watches more potentially.

For fun, the miltary creates a watch that tracks general relativity, as a complication. It tracks your speed relative to earth speed and shows how much older or younger you are getting relative to mission control....

Image
·
moemoe

I think the radiation spec they reference is more magnetic and emp based against electronic watches which is what most military members wear in the field... these vintage automatics will do just fine...

The technical brief maybe creating a one off as a proof of concept or developing it for space force... more radiation in space. Still operationally going to affect electronic watches more potentially.

For fun, the miltary creates a watch that tracks general relativity, as a complication. It tracks your speed relative to earth speed and shows how much older or younger you are getting relative to mission control....

Image

I would love to have this function. I drive pretty fast, so I’m sure I’m significantly younger than my calendar age states.

·
moemoe

I think the radiation spec they reference is more magnetic and emp based against electronic watches which is what most military members wear in the field... these vintage automatics will do just fine...

The technical brief maybe creating a one off as a proof of concept or developing it for space force... more radiation in space. Still operationally going to affect electronic watches more potentially.

For fun, the miltary creates a watch that tracks general relativity, as a complication. It tracks your speed relative to earth speed and shows how much older or younger you are getting relative to mission control....

Image

If we're talking magnetic radiation there are still limitations on mechanical watches. The materials need to be made specifically to resist these phenomena. Especially the most sensitive parts like balance wheels. As an example, Seiko uses a proprietary alloy for their balance wheels called SPRON which comes in two grades. Look at all the testing they do for this one material on this one part:

Characteristics data | Seiko Instruments Inc. Micro Energy Division (sii.co.jp)

If magnetic fields get strong enough they can magnetize movements or generally affect their accuracy. Quartz movements are surprisingly resistant to EMF because the parts are designed to work inside electronic fields (in fact they emit tiny little EMFs themselves). Furthermore, the effect of EMF on electronics is proportional to their inductance, or in other words, their ability to turn the magnetic field into an induced current which could damage the circuit. Quartz watch circuits are sooo small they cannot induce much at all, so again, they are generally very safe from EMF; more safe than a typical mechanical watch that doesn't have the fancy materials inside the movement. An exception might be a large smart watch which contains more parts and more copper.

In general though, modern watches, both mechanical and electronic alike, combine materials and shielding design to be pretty resistant to whatever radiation the military is facing. They can handle it pretty well at this point in time. Maybe not 60 years ago.

If you want a really radiation resistant device, go with vacuum tubes! They work with a filament just like lightbulbs, so as long as they're hot, they can conduct electrons. They don't care much for EMF or rad particles. But they are mostly out of production unless you're looking to build a guitar amplifier.

Image
·

Fascinating. I’m thinking if I’m ever exposed to radiation at that level, accurately telling time will be pretty low of the priority list!

·
tonmed

If we're talking magnetic radiation there are still limitations on mechanical watches. The materials need to be made specifically to resist these phenomena. Especially the most sensitive parts like balance wheels. As an example, Seiko uses a proprietary alloy for their balance wheels called SPRON which comes in two grades. Look at all the testing they do for this one material on this one part:

Characteristics data | Seiko Instruments Inc. Micro Energy Division (sii.co.jp)

If magnetic fields get strong enough they can magnetize movements or generally affect their accuracy. Quartz movements are surprisingly resistant to EMF because the parts are designed to work inside electronic fields (in fact they emit tiny little EMFs themselves). Furthermore, the effect of EMF on electronics is proportional to their inductance, or in other words, their ability to turn the magnetic field into an induced current which could damage the circuit. Quartz watch circuits are sooo small they cannot induce much at all, so again, they are generally very safe from EMF; more safe than a typical mechanical watch that doesn't have the fancy materials inside the movement. An exception might be a large smart watch which contains more parts and more copper.

In general though, modern watches, both mechanical and electronic alike, combine materials and shielding design to be pretty resistant to whatever radiation the military is facing. They can handle it pretty well at this point in time. Maybe not 60 years ago.

If you want a really radiation resistant device, go with vacuum tubes! They work with a filament just like lightbulbs, so as long as they're hot, they can conduct electrons. They don't care much for EMF or rad particles. But they are mostly out of production unless you're looking to build a guitar amplifier.

Image

Thanks for the effort and indepth reply. I think the miltary could save some money by sticking to a sun dial at this point....

·
moemoe

Thanks for the effort and indepth reply. I think the miltary could save some money by sticking to a sun dial at this point....

The budget for a military grade sundial would be Astronomical. 😎

·

Great read!

·

Curious to see what this would entail. I find it slightly ironic that we spent nearly 70/80 years adding rads for lume inside the watch, and now we are looking to keep rads out, but maybe it’s just me.