On 2824-type Modding - Part 1
Now, it wasn't that long ago that I purchased the ST2130 on AliExpress, just to find out what building a mod with this type of movement would be like. I'm not done with the build yet, but a few things have become apparent:
Modding with the ST2130 is not all that different from an NH35. Sure, the dial feet have these little clamps on the movement, but that is truly a minor difference. Similar with the spacer between the movement and the dial. Overall, the dimensions are very similar, especially in regards to the watch hands. (In contrast, working on and ST36 feels completely different.)
I didn't quite appreciate how much the grey Seiko spacer standardizes how the movement is mounted. With an 2824-patterned movement there may be clamps, metal spacers, or metal spacers with clamps. You will also run into far more cases with bad plastic spacers when browsing AliExpress.
Then we are coming to the big differences: A lot of what you find online for 2824 builds is geared towards watchmakers or small manufacturers. With the NH35 most dials sizes are close to the ubiquitous 29.5mm diameter. Not so for 2824-type components. You suddenly have to worry about dial openings, index diameters, dial thickness, or other aspects that most NH35 modders don't have to consider for the most part, probably because of the influence of the SKX on the Seiko modding community.
You can no-longer assume that you are getting shipped the right stuff when ordering from eBay or AliExpress. You may get dials/cases that the supplier thinks are compatible, but are really not.
You now have the option to buy from rather interesting European suppliers, but they are also not all that much geared towards retail customers, but watchmakers are small manufacturers. That being said, you can now buy some beautiful $300 cases for your build.
As of right now movement and dial have been assembled, and I'm waiting for a case that SHOULD fit, and I will probably follow up on this. It would have been far easier to build a kit watch, but where is the fun in that?
Thanks for the info. I also did ST3600 and NH35 builds. I was planning to start playing with ST2130 next. Please keep on sharing your experiences.
Nice!! Thanks for the advise!! It’s just surprising how NH movement made it easy for modding… I too had to learn a few nuances with different movements but I feel it great having to learn from other movements and their dimensions…
Nice!! Thanks for the advise!! It’s just surprising how NH movement made it easy for modding… I too had to learn a few nuances with different movements but I feel it great having to learn from other movements and their dimensions…
I wouldn't say that NH35 builds are too easy, but a lot of the parts compatibility is "baked into" many of the components, which makes it easy, but also removes some options.
Think of a dress watch where the case is is curved in the front, partially obscuring the dial, but eliminating the need for a bezel. Aside from the dial size, you would have to account for that in the dial layout.
I wouldn't say that NH35 builds are too easy, but a lot of the parts compatibility is "baked into" many of the components, which makes it easy, but also removes some options.
Think of a dress watch where the case is is curved in the front, partially obscuring the dial, but eliminating the need for a bezel. Aside from the dial size, you would have to account for that in the dial layout.
Agree…. It’s also subjective I guess if one’s experience is working on a similar subject over a course of time it can seem simple …
Also if you know the best way to freaking cut and measure the stem crowns perfectly I’m all ears too!! 😁… I always have few extras in most cases …
Agree…. It’s also subjective I guess if one’s experience is working on a similar subject over a course of time it can seem simple …
Also if you know the best way to freaking cut and measure the stem crowns perfectly I’m all ears too!! 😁… I always have few extras in most cases …
No, unfortunately there is no foolproof way that I know of. I think the variation comes into play when then end of the stem is not filed completely perpendicular, throwing off your measurement just a little. Other than that: "Cut less, file more." 😉
P.S.: I also have extras. And the ones for the ST2130 are on their way.
No, unfortunately there is no foolproof way that I know of. I think the variation comes into play when then end of the stem is not filed completely perpendicular, throwing off your measurement just a little. Other than that: "Cut less, file more." 😉
P.S.: I also have extras. And the ones for the ST2130 are on their way.
Hahaha!! That’s my current motto lately “cut less, file more” I find filling can give you that little close to being precise cut …
Hahaha!! That’s my current motto lately “cut less, file more” I find filling can give you that little close to being precise cut …
I had an internship at Siemens in ninth grade, in one of their machining shops. The instructor's motto was: "You will only get a saw if I'm satisfied that you can file."
I had an internship at Siemens in ninth grade, in one of their machining shops. The instructor's motto was: "You will only get a saw if I'm satisfied that you can file."
Love that!! That’s a great motto!!
I know a couple dealers on eBay, all from Switzerland, that focus on the 2824. Definitely not as present as the Seiko community, but perhaps it is the slightly higher cost to entry. Ickler makes some awesome 2824 cases, but yeah…one pays for German engineering I suppose. As far as dials go, from my research, sounds like dots are the way to go when trying to figure out feet…I am still learning so I can dive in the pool
I know a couple dealers on eBay, all from Switzerland, that focus on the 2824. Definitely not as present as the Seiko community, but perhaps it is the slightly higher cost to entry. Ickler makes some awesome 2824 cases, but yeah…one pays for German engineering I suppose. As far as dials go, from my research, sounds like dots are the way to go when trying to figure out feet…I am still learning so I can dive in the pool
Yes, the Ickler family, and they also run Archimede, if I remember correctly. Their retail site has a number of nice cases, but many are sold out. I was wondering about dots myself, because where they would normally sit there is a spacer, making sure the dial and datewheel don't touch. This spacer is loosely held in place by the dial feet. You'd have to have dots for both the spacer and the dial.
I don't know what this does to the effective dial thickness. (That was one of my first mistakes, meaning that I didn't force the dial onto the movement enough, and the dial riding too high, not leaving enough vertical space for the hour hand.)
Cutting dial feet cannot be that hard. If you can flip over the dial, center it, then use a compass at the right distance from the center, and get the angles right, it would have to be an option for most brass dials.
Yes, the Ickler family, and they also run Archimede, if I remember correctly. Their retail site has a number of nice cases, but many are sold out. I was wondering about dots myself, because where they would normally sit there is a spacer, making sure the dial and datewheel don't touch. This spacer is loosely held in place by the dial feet. You'd have to have dots for both the spacer and the dial.
I don't know what this does to the effective dial thickness. (That was one of my first mistakes, meaning that I didn't force the dial onto the movement enough, and the dial riding too high, not leaving enough vertical space for the hour hand.)
Cutting dial feet cannot be that hard. If you can flip over the dial, center it, then use a compass at the right distance from the center, and get the angles right, it would have to be an option for most brass dials.
I am a no date guy, so this is where it benefits me! :-). The big Swiss movement dealer on eBay will actually remove the date wheel and take out the position if you ask. :-)
I am a no date guy, so this is where it benefits me! :-). The big Swiss movement dealer on eBay will actually remove the date wheel and take out the position if you ask. :-)
Well, I've done dial dots before, and maybe I was OCD, or I made a mistake, but I always questioned whether the angle of the dial was right.
I personally actually like the date, and you are right: Any mistake would be obvious in the date window. On the flip side, it might be easier to place if you purposely use that window as a reference during installation.
Well, I've done dial dots before, and maybe I was OCD, or I made a mistake, but I always questioned whether the angle of the dial was right.
I personally actually like the date, and you are right: Any mistake would be obvious in the date window. On the flip side, it might be easier to place if you purposely use that window as a reference during installation.
I now know who else to bug when I jump in. :-)
That’s great! Thanks for informing the community what the deal is if we’d like to try this path.
A guide when you’re done would be cool , if you think you’re up for it 😉
Forgot to add a link to the 2nd part, which is just an intermediary update. (Cased the first watch with the ST2130, just to get the feel for it.)