Serious question, when is it a “homage” and when it is “just fake”?
I see a lot of watches on here, which from afar are exact replicas of a popular big brand model…Rolex, Cartier, AP etc. They are unmistakably copies, but on closer inspection you see someone else’s brand on it (and the wearer calls it a “micro brand”).
Aren’t these just “fakes” or is it the minute you change the name (the only part of the dial that is different) from Rolex or Cartier to say “Watch Co ABCD” it transforms magically to a homage? (Edit: maybe the proper term is “clone”)
IMHO, a homage is like the Tissot PRX, the CasioOaks, that darn Fifty Phantoms, a lot of the Tudors (including my own BB Pro which I consider an Explorer Homage). You can see the design “inspiration” but it’s not the same design.
Basically, when is a fake a fake? (Edit: is a clone a fake?)
And if you are wearing one of these “homages” (the ones referenced in paragraph 1), what do you say when someone asks you if that’s a Rolex, Cartier, Panarai, etc? Do you try to pass it off as such? Do you say, “no…it’s just a copy?”
I’m genuinely curious, because I believe the majority of us hate “fakes” but these exact “homages” (Edit: clones) seem to skate by.
Chasing the “next” grail. In the meantime, helping match friends with the watch that matches their personality (their “watch soulmate”)
This thread is going to be interesting.
This thread is going to be interesting.
Isn’t that the point 😉
That said, I’ve seen your collection and I think I know where you stand on this one
A homage is ok for me if it's made by the same company (IE a reissue) or if it's paying homage to something long out of production.
Thats it for me. 🖖🏻
Here we go again…
Go ahead guys go debate your Bunz off!!
For my personal opinion which isnt researched in any way,
An homage would be an exact or slightly different copy of another brand's original design but the copycat has put their own brand name on the watch. A fake would be a complete copy of another brand including their brand name and logo.
That's just how i look at it.
Homages tend to be legal as well whereas fakes are illigal
A “fake” imo is an article that is represented in all possible ways as another article.
A “fake” Rolex is designed to deceive someone and presents as a genuine one.
An “homage” may have the same characteristics as a “fake” except it is plainly marked as being produced by a wholly different manufacturer as the original. It is NOT designed to deceive. Just emulate.
A homage is ok for me if it's made by the same company (IE a reissue) or if it's paying homage to something long out of production.
Thats it for me. 🖖🏻
Well that in my opinion is a proper homage.
I’m talking about a watch that looks exactly like a “watch of the moment”. Like the homage RMs out there
I’m here for this
For my personal opinion which isnt researched in any way,
An homage would be an exact or slightly different copy of another brand's original design but the copycat has put their own brand name on the watch. A fake would be a complete copy of another brand including their brand name and logo.
That's just how i look at it.
Homages tend to be legal as well whereas fakes are illigal
Yes. Not talking about it from the legal perspective. More as a watch collector.
A fake includes the original makers "Brand Name"
Anything else is an homage, which is why the OEM leaves them alone.
It seems that more than a few people are more worried about this than the companys being "homaged".
Isn’t this the key phrase…”But it clearly a Bernhardt”?
An evergreen.
My two paganis, the average person isn’t going to think these are “rolex homages” Now if I was to buy the paganis that are almost identical to omega speedmaster, that would be a different story
Yes. Not talking about it from the legal perspective. More as a watch collector.
Are you asking how i feel about it?
For me homages are fine and fakes are not. Homages own up to their deeds by putting their name on the dial, while fakes would deceive the buyer by pretending to be something they are not.
Homages have their place (although fakes acheive the same purpose) and that is for people that do not want to spend the money on the "real deal" but appreciate the looks of the original watch.
Hahaha all my mods are in-house 🤣
All my watches are in my house 🙄🤣makes them upper tier,put them in the garden devalues them.
Lol, luv the discussion.
Also like to point out, look at these designs. One costs thousands more than the others, but according to all the "conventional" wisdom some espouse here and on YouTube, why would I "waste" my money on the homage. SAVE FOR THE REAL THING PLEBE.
In the meantime buy a G Shock, cuz that's Godtier, and while you're at it pick up a Casio Royale, now you have versatility. Save for that Sinn or Tudor. And shut up till you have it. It's a journey to "true" luxury, plus there's no heritage, resale value, nor AD support.
Problem is, I SPECIFICALLY did not want a G Shock, or a Royale. I wanted a tough, legible, no-nonsense, tool watch, that is within my budget, to wear now. As in not have to wait for years to wear. Plus I legit like supporting US based microbrands. Yes I know most are made in the same factories as the Ali brands, but the peeps running the show are locals.
Plus for me, I have other, faaaaaar more expensive hobbies that take precedence over saving for a luxury watch. Anyone seen the price of an EOTECH Vudu 5-25? Not to mention 6.5 Creedmoor price per round, adds up trust me 😅....🤏🏻
Again, not hating on those that want to save/wait/move up the luxury list. More power to you, and actually I'm happy for you. Get that Tag/Tudor/Rolex/VC. That's what you're into, and that's awesome. Because again, it's NOT the abominable apple junk.
Every watch is a homage of the first ever wrist watch,if something has visible and physical form and exists it cannot be fake,branding used to be seen as lower class behavior and wasn't used as much from the start,now most care and buy on branding alone.
All my watches are in my house 🙄🤣makes them upper tier,put them in the garden devalues them.
Well then!! 🤝 so are mine!! We’re both Upper Tier Guys 🥳😁
Here we go, another guy with money asking the question!!! Soooo is the Zenith chronomaster a fake of the Dayton?? Is the submarine the only legit dive watch?? It's not the watch that's fake it's the guy with ego making it an issue that's is. Get over your feeling of entitlement bro, it's a big world!!
It’s not about the expense, you miss the point of his query which is a more nuanced question than simply focusing on cost. He’s asking why some in the community give fauxmages a pass, when replicas and straight-up fakes are frowned upon…and the only difference between the fauxmage and a replica is often just a logo or dial color swap. He’s also making an accurate distinction between a copy and an actual homage. There are plenty of fans of affordable watches that also share the same opinion of fauxmages. 🍻
As a designer myself, my opinion is skewed from that standpoint: a homage borrows the style of another artist/designer to produce something original to show respect to that artist/designer.
I view actual homage watches (not Pagani or San Martin) in a similar light: either the same or different brands borrowing elements of other watches to produce something original; I often cite the Steinhart Titanium GMT as a great example of an homage vs a copy like the Pagani Batman. I make a distinction between homages and reissues from the same brand. I don’t have an issue with homages or reissues, and find several appealing.
And then you have clomages/fauxmages, whatever you call them, they aren’t ‘homages’ — they’re mostly sub-AA replicas with a different logo slapped on. Legal or not, all I see is cubic zirconia — which is fine if that’s your thing, but as a collector, much like being handed a bag of cubics I personally see nothing of worth in them, just inauthenticity. Just buy a Seiko or any number of affordable micros that make an effort to do more than regurgitate for a quick cash-grab off other’s work.
@sharkincc gave other brilliant photo examples of the distinction with actual homages from Christopher Ward and Grand Seiko.
Homage:
Replicas by any other name. The plagiarism and lack of any originality is glaringly obvious in comparison to the Steinhart:
This is so well put. Much better worded and illustrated than my original post.
Possibly. But, they are all different in design (but possibly borrowing for elements of another - true homage). They are not really the type of homage/clone I was referring to
I'm sorry, but your answers seem highly biased. You said that only in China do all these qualifications exist, but in other countries there are not? If they have so many qualifications, and I believe they have it, but then why do they prefer to make a copy, a clone, copy the design development work of successful brands instead of creating their own? Based on what you answered, and my perception, what comes to my mind is that in China the laws allow and even encourage companies to deliberately copy successful products from renowned brands from other countries. But each consumer buys what they prefer, there is no problem with that, like I already said before.
This thread is going to be interesting.
When they stick the original manufacturers name on it. That makes it a fake/counterfiet.
It’s curious that in Switzerland or the USA there are no watch brands specializing in “clones”. Homages are another story, and I think more like the original post.
I'm not generalizing to all Chinese brands. Seagull for exemple is excellent. But I imagine how deep is the horological history of Pagani DESIGN. Who knows, maybe one day I'll have one.
For me there are fakes are a copy and pretending to be something they are not. Even with the Franken versions they are not the real McCoy. Homages are basically a tribute to the popular original. So many companies have made homages to the Submariner for example. Steinhart is a brand who make great homages and they don’t pretend to be Rolex’s.
I come late to this discussion, as always, but here my two cents. The problem lies in the word "homage" that we don't use properly.
We use "homage" as an euphemism in many cases, to the extent that we need to use "true homage" to differentiate real homages from direct design copies. Clones could work too, but bear with me. In many cases we have watches that on the surface look exactly like a popular model. But not everything is exactly trying to be the same. Different movements, different finishing, sizes and similar. A good example would be San Martin with some models imitating, for instance, the Tudor Ranger in different sizes.
A true homage, or tribute, is inspired by other watches but bring new looks and original designs to a mix. A good example could be Lorier.
A fake is a fake. Tries to copie it all and stamps the same brand in the dial are are directly illegal.
I personally have no problems with direct design copies (ddc I call them) and have a few true homages. I got one fake by mistake and got destroyed!
I come late to this discussion, as always, but here my two cents. The problem lies in the word "homage" that we don't use properly.
We use "homage" as an euphemism in many cases, to the extent that we need to use "true homage" to differentiate real homages from direct design copies. Clones could work too, but bear with me. In many cases we have watches that on the surface look exactly like a popular model. But not everything is exactly trying to be the same. Different movements, different finishing, sizes and similar. A good example would be San Martin with some models imitating, for instance, the Tudor Ranger in different sizes.
A true homage, or tribute, is inspired by other watches but bring new looks and original designs to a mix. A good example could be Lorier.
A fake is a fake. Tries to copie it all and stamps the same brand in the dial are are directly illegal.
I personally have no problems with direct design copies (ddc I call them) and have a few true homages. I got one fake by mistake and got destroyed!
Agreed and respect your position. I personally believe that the mislabeling of these watches as ‘homages’ by both influencers and the factories that produce them is intentional — fewer people would want to buy a ‘patek copy’ versus a ‘patek homage’ — and that’s not something I expect to stop anytime soon, not by the factories, influencers, nor with people who’ve invested so much in building massive collections around them.
When some asks me (having my San Martin bb58)., what I am wearing? I just say, that it is a 250 Euro copy of an expensive watch. They normally ask then how much the original costs. And when I say 5k, most of the time they say: I would also rather buy a clone.
Don't forget we are in a bubble. My wife always says that all my watches look the same ( all different dive watches). No one cares in RL other than yourself. And I do not have an issue with a copy. I would like to have an original one, but not for that amount of money. I have different priorities in life.
And sidenote if you come across a watch snop (I haven't), move along.
if i like it then it is an homage.
if i dont like it then it is a foul monstrosity than should not grace the light of day with its evil insidiousness.