Ethics

It would be safe to assume that workers rights in China differ vastly to those in the western world, but then again, workers rights in Europe differ vastly to those in the US, in favour of the worker.

Yes and I don’t know. Where does one start caring about the ethics? Is it at the mining company who is gathering the minerals needed? Is it at the processing plant for the metals? Or is it only limited to the production of finished parts? I’d like to think I care tremendously about ethics, but the more one digs, the harder it can be to draw a line.

Many companies try to respect the environment - some use recycled ocean plastics for dials (Oris) and cases (Timex), the Citizen Eco-Drives are keeping batteries out of landfills, Timex uses eco-friendly recycled fabric straps, apple leather, and eco-friendly DriTan leather for many straps, Seiko has all sorts of "save the oceans/planet" special editions, and Casio is using recycled packaging and bio-mass plastic for their 40th anniversary G-Shock.

Thanks for your input. I was just sort of scouting for what people thought and feel about ethics in the watch making industry. I agree also that the companies in many industries use concern for the environment as some kind of selling stunt.

That is interesting. I can understand that a solar watch would help land fill issues.

I see what you mean. It is a bit of a jungle. I was coming from an angle of being conscious that many companies don't treat their workers right and I was more thinking of the actual watch fabrication companies. You sort of wonder how some companies and I'm thinking perhaps of Casio can make their watches so good and so cheap.

I've heard that things aren't necessarily that good in China. Thanks for your input.

It is almost impossible in whatever I buy to find out if they are ethically produced, but I do try my best as its important. Same goes for food etc, is my tuna sustainable and not caught alongside a dozen dolphins ! So as I said I try, I will not buy a watch from a country that has terrible human rights record etc, but finding out if a product (or a component) is outsourced is ultra difficult. Companies should be more transparent, but different countries have different rules especially with workers rights. It gets political in a heartbeat. I think if we want a better world, and watches, then as consumers we should demand more information so we can all make better choices. Some of those Ali Express watches look amazing and great specs, but do we ever give a thought to the person working very long hours for low pay a thought?

Sorry for the rant, just watched - 12 Angry Men - and in a righteous mood!

China is all about the dollar and not it's people. It is very hard to find anything out there that China hasn't touched from minerals,chemicals, metals and consumer goods. So the ethical question is look around your living quarters and tell me China isn't in your room.

So what do you do?

I myself own it. That's ethical, honesty to one's self.

Ponder on

Cheers!

The problem with these kind of discussions is who gets to decide what is ethical and fair? Can I come into your culture and tell you that you don’t pay your workers enough, don’t treat your workers well enough, don’t respect the environment enough, don’t treat all citizens equally and demand you change things so that I can feel better? How would you feel if the tables were turned and people outside your culture told you that some of your deeply seated norms made them feel uncomfortable and you needed change them immediately?

I’m visiting the Philippines right now. Just considering the very minor concept of tipping in their culture…I’ve been told typical tips to food servers are normally very low or it’s just not done. When I leave the equivalent of a $2 tip for a meal, people tell me I’m way over tipping. I think I’m under tipping, but who am I to tell someone their social norms are “wrong” and need to change so that I can tell myself I’m morally superior.

In the USA there was recently a movement by the progressive liberals to eliminate gender assignment to nouns in the Spanish language. They said gender assignment of nouns was sexist and therefore unacceptable. They were trying to tell a very large portion of the people on earth that since a deeply embedded part of their culture made a small group of people outside their culture feel uncomfortable, it had to be changed. Oh and also…we, the enlightened progressives, know what’s better for you than you do. The Latin and Hispanic people pretty much ignored the outsiders telling them how to live and think and rejected the nonsensical virtue signaling.

I think many who bring up social ethics mean well, but it can be rather arrogant to press one’s sense of right and wrong on others whose culture is very different than your own.

I find that it is ethical to support the people that do work, no matter their situation.

For instance: let’s say you boycotted Apple because they manufacture in China and the workers suffer. Because of this boycot, Apple shuts down their China operations and starts manufacturing in South Korea. You gladly pay an extra $100 per phone to support this.

Did you just help the former Apple employees in China that are now unemployed?

If I cared enough about the ethics of every company that made goods I purchase, I'd have to make everything I want or need.

Good point. I suppose like everything you can be over conscientious.

Good point. I can see what you are saying. But if you don't buy the Apple phone you are hurting Apple who are the main culprits. Also if you make a stink in the US of A or on online watch forums then you are making people not buy Apple which can only be a good thing as it hurts them and might make them change their behaviour.

It's just that I don't think exploiting people in any culture is good. My conscience dictates that I must do something. I can see what you are saying about people coming into my culture from a foreign culture and telling me what to do. It's like people coming in from a different culture and setting up their own ghetto where they keep their own laws and such.

Yes I agree telling someone they need to change isn't good. Telling them they need to change to make you feel better sounds even more arrogant.

In the beginning God made them male and female.

As a Brit in the past we have colonised countries and I would say that maybe we got rid of their culture. Which wasn't a good thing. Imho.

As I noted, Apple might change their practices if you make a thing of it, and that will be better for the new Apple employees. In several instances, it just takes employment away from those you are trying to help.

I’m not saying that you need to prescribe to my brand of ethics, but that’s where I stand. Open contracts between employee and employer are opportunities for mutually beneficial business transactions.

thanks for getting back to me.