What is it with Grand Seiko?
I'm being honest. 6 years ago I never knew of Grand Seiko. And I did have that same mindset as to how someone could cough up 4000 and above for a 'Seiko' watch back then.
For the normal watch collector, I sometimes feel we need to have our sanity checked if we are buying a GS, particularly if you could have acquired an Omega at the same price. So what drove you to buy one? Especially for those who chose the GS as a first watch.
Is it that longing to be different and not fall into the Swiss Made hype? Am I snobbish for actually opting for a Grand Seiko over an Omega or a Rolex? I mean seriously they don't have well known ambassadors and hardly market their stuff. So why is it that when we do talk about GS, we feel reassured?
Just another average person with an interest in watches.
Funny, but I started out with Swiss only - Breitling, Rolex, and Omega. And my buddy kept talking about Grand Seiko, and I'd be sitting there thinking, "Dude, you're such a Japan Stan, this is you..."
And now... GS'es make up nearly the entirety of my collection!
By the way, which do you think I should get?
i ❤️ Collecting Seikos so it just a natural progression for me…then we’ll talk about Credor‘s next …😍🤤
I guess my questions to you would be what draws you to Omega/etc. over a GS? If it had a different name, would you be okay with GS?
For myself, I don't think the GS designs speak to me very much (at least not right now). I also think the name's pretty good: it'd be like Toyota/Honda naming their upscale brands Grand Toyota/Grand Honda to denote that extra care was put into those cars.
I guess my questions to you would be what draws you to Omega/etc. over a GS? If it had a different name, would you be okay with GS?
For myself, I don't think the GS designs speak to me very much (at least not right now). I also think the name's pretty good: it'd be like Toyota/Honda naming their upscale brands Grand Toyota/Grand Honda to denote that extra care was put into those cars.
Toyota-Lexus
Honda-Acura
just in case you didn’t know 🤓
Grand Seiko for many years was well known and well regarded in Japan. It is becoming the same here in collector circles but not so much with the general public. Most people don't know what it is which makes it a sleeper brand. I like that aspect of it.
One of the reasons I want a GS is one of the same reasons I love the Toyota GR Yaris: complete obsession over years and years with engineering perfection. Both Seiko and Toyota wear their engineering on their sleeves. They don't have the "glamour" of brand, and hype, and the fautina of being rich and beautiful--even though they try, often in rather embarrassing ways! Fundamentally, they're both about engineering perfection and there's an honesty there in the brand to which I can relate. Just as BMWs, in their current guise, turn my stomach, so does Rolex and Omega. I know there's amazing engineering behind those brands, but the way they shout BRAND and LUXURY and RICH just turns me off.
Having said all that, the Rolex Explorer 1 and the Milgauss and the Air King are some of my favorite watches, but the identity the brand has on top of the simplicity of those watches turns me off. Conversely, it drives me cuckoo that GS doesn't make a simple sports watch like the Explorer or Milgauss or Air King, a watch that is mechanical, with lume, and has all round practicality, durability, and everyday wear. If they just added lume to some of the Heritage line, I'd be happy (yes, I know there are a few JDMs that do have lume).
Toyota-Lexus
Honda-Acura
just in case you didn’t know 🤓
Yeah but Grand Lexus and Grand Acura sound much fancier.
That's interesting when you say "I mean seriously they don't have well-known ambassadors and hardly market their stuff." and even so people choose them over Omega and other brands. To me, that means they are selling more quality than marketing. I have GS most affordable watch in their current lineup, the SBGX261 and I sincerely found it more appealing, more balanced, and more well-built than the SMPs I had (and I am a diver guy).
While the quality of Swiss watchmaking as a whole speaks for itself, I suspect many of us fall victim to advertising from 50+ years ago. Swiss watchmakers invented the idea that only they could make a really great watch, and sold that idea to people who could afford it. We all grew up with that idea, as did our parents, and possibly grandparents. It's not that Omega and Rolex don't make what they say they make, it's just that they don't have a monopoly on quality and heritage like they pretend.
Yeah but Grand Lexus and Grand Acura sound much fancier.
How about King Lexus and King Acura then Grand Lexus and Grand Acura lo😝 they will all have 24k gold ceramic brake calipers!! (Not sure if you can mix gold and ceramic but go with it) And dual motor(hybrid) than you can opt to choose to go full electric for the quiet boring ride or go full Petrol! The loud obnoxious hellz yeah kinda day 😜
I don't have a GS (yet), but it's definitely on the list and Rolex is not. Not sure about Omega - maybe vintage. For me, it's about capability and design. Maybe Rolex is too popular, too common and too-commonly copied, but the designs don't appeal to me. It will be difficult to pick just one of the GS models...so I can see why @Omeganut needs to change his user name 😀
How about King Lexus and King Acura then Grand Lexus and Grand Acura lo😝 they will all have 24k gold ceramic brake calipers!! (Not sure if you can mix gold and ceramic but go with it) And dual motor(hybrid) than you can opt to choose to go full electric for the quiet boring ride or go full Petrol! The loud obnoxious hellz yeah kinda day 😜
I don’t think the question is “can” you mix them, it’s “should” you mix them. And the answer is obviously “he’ll yes!”
I have a problem with brands that want to dance along the cost and quality spectrum. Either it's a luxury brand or it isn't. There is a clear difference between Rolex and Tudor, even though I'll be the first to admit that Tudor has released some nice watches as of recent, it will still never be Rolex. And someone can just as well say that it doesn't want to be and you'd be right, which is even more reason why it has a completely different name and branding. Adding the word Grand to denote it's special craftsmanship and care just makes me think they don't think that highly of the standard brand. They should've cut all ties from the beginning but instead they didn't and now we're here having this conversation. I currently own no Seikos or Grand Seikos and I think it will stay that way. When I purchase a watch, I want to feel special... Seiko doesn't do that for me. However, kudos for anyone that it does.
Great thread! Makes me sleep a little bit better. Two words that caught my attention. Obsessed and quality. So in other words, they are obsessed with giving us a quality product! And like screw the ambassadors and the marketing. We rather spend it on perfecting our watches for you!
How about this?
or this GS sports with lume?
“A GS is just another seiko” you bet it is.
That same Seiko company that shut down the time testing chronometer competition. The same Seiko brand that constantly innovates without the need of David Beckham. The same Seiko prominence without the need to go on vague expeditions to the moon or supposedly climb the tallest mountain or be first to tell the time in the air. All of that while being owned by Epson, a printing company.
Why shouldn’t anyone not have a Grand Seiko?
“A GS is just another seiko” you bet it is.
That same Seiko company that shut down the time testing chronometer competition. The same Seiko brand that constantly innovates without the need of David Beckham. The same Seiko prominence without the need to go on vague expeditions to the moon or supposedly climb the tallest mountain or be first to tell the time in the air. All of that while being owned by Epson, a printing company.
Why shouldn’t anyone not have a Grand Seiko?
You mean Seiko owns Epson. 😄
GS sits in a strange place. Using the name Seiko in their lineup gives the impression that they are working side by side with Seiko on all parts, when in fact their manufacturing assembly is totally isolated. And because of this, people tend to associate with the lower end Seiko watches.
But there is nothing wrong with calling it Grand Seiko. It's how they brand it and how they chose to approach it to show where they came from. It's just a name. But they certainly make it up with their art of watchmaking, and this is where I can't really compare them with Rolex or Omega.
But seriously they need to hire someone who can make bracelets, and better sport watches 😀. Their rice bead bracelet is beautiful, expensive and hard to find.
Man... everyone always hating on GS's sports watches and their bracelets...
GS sits in a strange place. Using the name Seiko in their lineup gives the impression that they are working side by side with Seiko on all parts, when in fact their manufacturing assembly is totally isolated. And because of this, people tend to associate with the lower end Seiko watches.
But there is nothing wrong with calling it Grand Seiko. It's how they brand it and how they chose to approach it to show where they came from. It's just a name. But they certainly make it up with their art of watchmaking, and this is where I can't really compare them with Rolex or Omega.
But seriously they need to hire someone who can make bracelets, and better sport watches 😀. Their rice bead bracelet is beautiful, expensive and hard to find.
It's actually more than a name. Many of the basic design principles apply to both Seiko and Grand Seiko. In contrast, Credor has been able to experiment far more with different designs than Grand Seiko. (There are of course exceptions to that rule.)
“A GS is just another seiko” you bet it is.
That same Seiko company that shut down the time testing chronometer competition. The same Seiko brand that constantly innovates without the need of David Beckham. The same Seiko prominence without the need to go on vague expeditions to the moon or supposedly climb the tallest mountain or be first to tell the time in the air. All of that while being owned by Epson, a printing company.
Why shouldn’t anyone not have a Grand Seiko?
I’m fully with you here, except the part where you imply the Everest thing was fake. You’re not a flat earthed are you?
While I agree Rolex is hugely successful because of marketing, it's still hard to criticize them for not being more innovative when they literally invented several types of sports watch. As I said, everything looks like a Sub or like it's different just to be different. GMTs generally look like a GMT Master or like they're different just to prove a point. Ditto with the Explorer and Datejust. For their segments, they're the pictures in the dictionary under "dive watch" and "GMT". And for good reason.
Ok, they could do better movements, but that's not their thing. And honestly, other than the spring drive, I don't get why people are so whipped up about movements. Any machine that small that tells time is pretty amazing, the rest is just window dressing. I love to look at a pretty movement, but it's not actually better than an ugly one, just prettier.
I mention the spring drive, because that's actually something new. It's arguably better than a regular mechanical movement, so cheers on that Seiko. Otherwise, everybody is just making tiny changes and shining their movements up real pretty like.
in 1950, every watch looked like this:
Then in 1952 Blancpain came out with this:
and a year later, Rolex came out with this.
So while I agree every homage looks like a Rolex, we need to keep in mind, that Rolex was a homage in the first place.
You mean Seiko owns Epson. 😄
True, but Epson owns GS, as that's the division that produces them.
And people think GS doesn't sponsor an F1 team... :)
I’m fully with you here, except the part where you imply the Everest thing was fake. You’re not a flat earthed are you?
😂😂 Pray tell where do I find the resources to read regarding a Rolex being on someone’s wrist in Everest besides a marketing campaign? Im not a flat earther, but I’m smart enough to know when its a marketing stunt
😂😂 Pray tell where do I find the resources to read regarding a Rolex being on someone’s wrist in Everest besides a marketing campaign? Im not a flat earther, but I’m smart enough to know when its a marketing stunt
Rolex sponsored the trip and gave all the climbers free watches for the trip. Sir Edmund Hillary also had an S. Smith & Sons watch with him, possibly because he trusted it more.
So sure, Rolex was there, but that's because they paid for it. Not because anyone trusted them so much, they needed to take one.
This is within the same vane as Rolex being the first wristwatch to be COSC certified. Not because they were any more accurate than other watches, but because they were the first ones to think about submitting one for certification.
Rolex from day one, have been marketing geniuses.
😂😂 Pray tell where do I find the resources to read regarding a Rolex being on someone’s wrist in Everest besides a marketing campaign? Im not a flat earther, but I’m smart enough to know when its a marketing stunt
Sure it’s a marketing stunt, but it’s also true. It’s like sending your watch to the ocean floor…nobody who buys it will ever go there, and it’s a marketing stunt, but it’s still impressive. Lots of watches probably could have gone to the moon, but only one of the few that did thought to pull the stunt of advertising that fact. We love the idea that our watch could do that.
I probably shouldn’t have brought up the moon landing, now we’ll have to argue over whether that happened or not. 😜
Sure it’s a marketing stunt, but it’s also true. It’s like sending your watch to the ocean floor…nobody who buys it will ever go there, and it’s a marketing stunt, but it’s still impressive. Lots of watches probably could have gone to the moon, but only one of the few that did thought to pull the stunt of advertising that fact. We love the idea that our watch could do that.
I probably shouldn’t have brought up the moon landing, now we’ll have to argue over whether that happened or not. 😜
I agree with the ocean floor, but I am sure pretty much any watch from the era would have worked on top of Mt Everest.
For me it's the attention to detail, engineering brilliance and the fact that one/two watchmakers built the thing from start to finish. Also, they are doing their thing, not just the 'Swiss' thing.
The SBGN003 is my next piece and pick up later this month. Can't wait!
I need a lot of reprogramming because I was born and raised in a country where, if money's not an object, we "buy German for cars, Swiss for watches, and Japanese for TVs." So I grew up thinking that the only watch worth having is Swiss. I'm not saying this is right. In fact, I'll be the first to admit it's very wrong. I'm just saying culture also plays a role in shaping one's perception, even in or especially with consumerism. To this day, I'm just not interested in Seiko.
So eventhough there are Grand Seikos out there that I love the look of and certain that the quality is there and eventhough Grand Seiko is probably worth my hard-earned money, if I have 5k USD to burn on a watch, it probably won't be Grand Seiko for the very shallow reason that it has Seiko in the name.
I am very stupid in this regard, I know. I'm trying to change my thinking, albeit very slowly.