Opinion: Watch Reviewers *could* chill out...
There's no doubt that the internet has changed watch collecting for the better, making more informed and discerning patrons out of many of us. I'm certain that reviewers have even been somewhat responsible for an increase in quality over the last few decades, demanding better materials and more refined tolerances, picking apart every inch with macro lenses. However, in the last few years, the treatment of some watches, particularly on the less expensive end of the price spectrum, has gotten a bit harsh. Criticism has pivoted from quality control (it's still outrageous that a $4k Seiko has a misaligned bezel insert) to somewhat lofty demands for features.
One good example is bracelets. As most of you know, solid link bracelets, solid end links and milled clasps are barely 20 years old. There is no doubt that the tighter tolerances of machined bracelets have resulted in watches that feel more solid and sporty... but are they better? Are solid end links worth it if you scratch then up every time you attempt to remove the bracelet? Is a chunkier, heavier milled clasp better than a more streamlined stamped clasp that does the same job?
Outside of bracelets, when did 50 meters of water resistance, enough to easily survive a crown-first plunge off a 3 meter high dive, mean that one should never take their watch in the water? For the love of God, who decided that the logo on a crown should MAGICALLY line up with the case?!
If you really want to know what features are impressive to have on a watch, it might be a cool project to try and make your own. One begins with lofty dreams about specs and design, but suddenly is shocked by how hard and expensive the simplest polished chamfer can be, the complexity required to construct a screw down crown, how much human finishing is necessary for nearly every external component, etc. With some perspective, some of the features offered in sub $300 watches become truly impressive. Certainly, getting higher quality products on the market is a noble pursuit, but many people might be turned away from watches that they might truly love for years to come, all because an internet personality told them a perfectly fine feature was a sign of poor quality.
What do you think? Am I way off base here?
Vostok Wobbly-Crown Ambassador Setting new records for time between watch purchase and watch disassembly Grail: Omega Constellation Globemaster
Well said! I agree that you can’t apply the same standards to a $300 watch as you would a $3,000 watch. Expectations should be proportional to price and a watch should be compared to its peers in the same price bracket.
With all that in mind, Seiko fix your #$@#$! chapter ring and bezel alignment! If Citizen and Casio can do it, so can you!!!
Very well said! I just created my own watch. With the case, movement, hands, face, crystal and caseback. I enjoyed it so much that I made a matching one for my wife.
It would’ve been much less expensive if I bought them already made. That’s the crazy part.
Once again I find myself in agreement with @s0ckpupp3t . Expectations need to be considered in relation to price. At every price point, the options range quite considerably in terms of quality of execution, and I think it's perfectly fair to point out such differences as long as the comparison is apples to apples.
Very well said! I just created my own watch. With the case, movement, hands, face, crystal and caseback. I enjoyed it so much that I made a matching one for my wife.
It would’ve been much less expensive if I bought them already made. That’s the crazy part.
Pics or it didn’t happen! 😜
But seriously, please share pics of your creation. Would love to see it!
Pics or it didn’t happen! 😜
But seriously, please share pics of your creation. Would love to see it!
Very well said! I just created my own watch. With the case, movement, hands, face, crystal and caseback. I enjoyed it so much that I made a matching one for my wife.
It would’ve been much less expensive if I bought them already made. That’s the crazy part.
Agree with @s0ckpupp3t !! I've got to see your creation! Making a watch for @coaxial_katie is a dream of mine.
Pics or it didn’t happen! 😜
But seriously, please share pics of your creation. Would love to see it!
oh It happened. Haha My wife is wearing hers right now. She saw mine and said can I have one just like that but smaller?
Hers is 36mm and mine is 39mm. Both with an NH35 and sapphire crystal. I’ll be getting the case back engraved with each others names too.
First time I ever did this. Ton of fun!
Once again I find myself in agreement with @s0ckpupp3t . Expectations need to be considered in relation to price. At every price point, the options range quite considerably in terms of quality of execution, and I think it's perfectly fair to point out such differences as long as the comparison is apples to apples.
@tempus , you make it sound like it’s a bad thing to agree with me. 😉
@JackieMoon_LMS , drat low rez comment pics.
Can you post the pic in a new thread so we can see it in its high res glory?
@tempus , you make it sound like it’s a bad thing to agree with me. 😉
Not at all. I just find that I tend to agree with you very frequently, and you have a very succinct way of expressing "my" thoughts 😀
Is that better?
Is that better?
I think you need to post the pics in an entirely new post for us to see the expanded picture, otherwise it’s pretty much thumbnail sized.
Gotcha. I’ll make a new thread under the modding tag
Well, demand drives the market and technology is ever evolving. CNC and CAD have made things that were not affordable or not possible just twenty years ago standard features now.
Some price increases are warranted and expected with advancing technology.
Is a car with air bags better vs older models without them? Very much so. And I expect to pay for those advances. If the auto I buy is a early adopter of advancing technology, I will pay more vs waiting for the price to come down as the market expands.
Are air bags necessary to drive a car, do they make it perform better or look better? Nope but I won't own a car without them.
Same for watches.
Well, demand drives the market and technology is ever evolving. CNC and CAD have made things that were not affordable or not possible just twenty years ago standard features now.
Some price increases are warranted and expected with advancing technology.
Is a car with air bags better vs older models without them? Very much so. And I expect to pay for those advances. If the auto I buy is a early adopter of advancing technology, I will pay more vs waiting for the price to come down as the market expands.
Are air bags necessary to drive a car, do they make it perform better or look better? Nope but I won't own a car without them.
Same for watches.
I think comparing solid end links to lifesaving functions (mandated by law) is a bit of a stretch... Vostok people know well that there is something to appreciating different methods of construction and different features. A friction bezel is cheaper to produce than a ratcheting bezel and doesn't have the same clicky fun, but there are things a friction bezel can do that a ratcheting bezel can't. Movements without hacking seconds are a pain... until you change time zones and realize you don't have to wait a whole minute to start your watch. And again, I attest that the stamped bracelet clasp can make a watch wear much better than many milled clasps can. Rolex manufactures each watch the way they do with genuine consideration towards saving money in production, so does everybody else. I think it's important to encourage a conversation that centers around the use, advantages and functions of certain features without simply labeling them as "old" and therefore "cheap." We'd never knock Patek for producing movements that beat below 4hz because most others beat at such a speed...
Great combo 👌 what strap is that ? I can see that it’s Perlon but looks better than the most I’ve seen or owned.
Not sure who makes it. I searched green perlon strap on eBay and it was a few bucks. Highly recommend!
I’ve never understood the hate for pressed versus milled clasps. I mean, I like a milled clasp better, but it’s not like the pressed ones are unwearable or really affect much about the on wrist comfort or anything.
I get so annoyed with the crown logo lining up thing! I‘m a fairly precise person and even I don’t care about that! I also don’t get my panties in a bunch about whether or not it’s signed in the first place. I have owned and seen plenty of crappy watches with a signed crown, and lots of great ones with an unsigned one. Who cares?!?!
Well said! I agree that you can’t apply the same standards to a $300 watch as you would a $3,000 watch. Expectations should be proportional to price and a watch should be compared to its peers in the same price bracket.
With all that in mind, Seiko fix your #$@#$! chapter ring and bezel alignment! If Citizen and Casio can do it, so can you!!!
"With all that in mind, Seiko fix your #$@#$! chapter ring and bezel alignment! If Citizen and Casio can do it, so can you!!!"
Citizen can't. My Nighthawk's slide rule bezel is an example.
Edit: it seems like the quote markup doesn't work
I just wanna state that this is quite the thought-provoking thread, and that the varied opinions really add to the OP's question. Nice job, one and all.
As for me, who is proud to be a salesman's worst nightmare: Rare is the print or video review where I take anything from it other than the specs and the photos. Yeah, I like to be informed of QC issues and things of that nature, but after that, it's all opinion. Which is fine...I just don't take it all very seriously.
Plus, at this juncture in time, so much of the sub-$1,000 watch scene is like Gilligan's Island to me - it's nothing but repeats. How many NH35s do you need? Probably another reason why my consumption as a consumer has been cut to maybe one watch a year, and most of the watches I've picked up in the past decade or so have been through traditional retail - meaning authorized dealers at actual brick and mortar stores. I feel like an island, but it's what I prefer - and I never have to worry about misaligned bezels and other imperfections once I try it on and inspect it before I buy it.
I just wanna state that this is quite the thought-provoking thread, and that the varied opinions really add to the OP's question. Nice job, one and all.
As for me, who is proud to be a salesman's worst nightmare: Rare is the print or video review where I take anything from it other than the specs and the photos. Yeah, I like to be informed of QC issues and things of that nature, but after that, it's all opinion. Which is fine...I just don't take it all very seriously.
Plus, at this juncture in time, so much of the sub-$1,000 watch scene is like Gilligan's Island to me - it's nothing but repeats. How many NH35s do you need? Probably another reason why my consumption as a consumer has been cut to maybe one watch a year, and most of the watches I've picked up in the past decade or so have been through traditional retail - meaning authorized dealers at actual brick and mortar stores. I feel like an island, but it's what I prefer - and I never have to worry about misaligned bezels and other imperfections once I try it on and inspect it before I buy it.
You know that's an excellent point. Though I don't have the ability to actually leave an AD with a watch this early in my career, few things excite me more than receiving a watch in the mail with just enough wrong with it that I can make it right myself. It's freeing to be able to make your watch more perfect when you don't have to worry about voiding warranties, and with that said it's the same to say that a company putting a warranty on their product shouldn't do so as a replacement for doing things right the first time. It's great to actually have a product in your hand; whipper-snappers my age treat that as some novel idea rather than the way things always have and probably should work. We really are spoiled these days with the quality standards coming out of Switzerland, and even small independent brands.
watch reviewers that try and sell you a strap half way through the review. Get on my nerves!
and don’t get me started on the Irish/Dutch guy Nico something, that just shouts and swears and burps and goes on and on about how much Rolex are worth, and how much celebrities collections are worth.
"With all that in mind, Seiko fix your #$@#$! chapter ring and bezel alignment! If Citizen and Casio can do it, so can you!!!"
Citizen can't. My Nighthawk's slide rule bezel is an example.
Edit: it seems like the quote markup doesn't work
Oh man. You're going to make me bust out my 5x loupe and pour over my 2 Nighthawks. 😉
Before I start freaking out, how is the slide rule bezel misaligned on the Nighthawks? It rotates freely and doesn't have any steps like a diver's bezel so I'm confused. 😮
... Ok now I‘ve looked at my Nighthawks with a loupe, I think you meant that not all the hashmarks on the two logarithmic scales perfectly line up when you set the 60 to the 12 o'clock index. 🥺
... Thanks a lot. Now I'm going to go toss both of these in the trash. 😭
watch reviewers that try and sell you a strap half way through the review. Get on my nerves!
and don’t get me started on the Irish/Dutch guy Nico something, that just shouts and swears and burps and goes on and on about how much Rolex are worth, and how much celebrities collections are worth.
But you have to admit that Nico's right when he says Casios are GOD TIER! :)
watch reviewers that try and sell you a strap half way through the review. Get on my nerves!
and don’t get me started on the Irish/Dutch guy Nico something, that just shouts and swears and burps and goes on and on about how much Rolex are worth, and how much celebrities collections are worth.
The one thing I will say about Nico is he has a knack for bringing people into the hobby. Four friends in the last few months have talked to me about finding a good first watch, all because they saw Nico on TikTok. For people my age, watches are used to attempt to project wealth, but encountering a good watch often sparks interest in our weird hobby. Most of us have a story about the watch that changed everything, I'm sure. We shan't forget that we're the odd ones, not the masses!
ti
The one thing I will say about Nico is he has a knack for bringing people into the hobby. Four friends in the last few months have talked to me about finding a good first watch, all because they saw Nico on TikTok. For people my age, watches are used to attempt to project wealth, but encountering a good watch often sparks interest in our weird hobby. Most of us have a story about the watch that changed everything, I'm sure. We shan't forget that we're the odd ones, not the masses!
ti
Interesting point, I don’t have tik tok… honestly it’s the belching and farting I can do without.
If he gets people talking about getting a watch, that is great but I wonder if its about ’investing’ in a watch that people will be scared to wear because of its value.
Unless they are buying Casio’s then that is awesome.
The one thing I will say about Nico is he has a knack for bringing people into the hobby. Four friends in the last few months have talked to me about finding a good first watch, all because they saw Nico on TikTok. For people my age, watches are used to attempt to project wealth, but encountering a good watch often sparks interest in our weird hobby. Most of us have a story about the watch that changed everything, I'm sure. We shan't forget that we're the odd ones, not the masses!
ti
From an entertainment value Nico is pretty hard to beat. I'm not particularly into his favorite two watch brands, but that guy is funny, and his self-depreciating humor and rants are just great.
I think you are very much correct when you point out whether a certain characteristic of a watch delivers value or is simply a feature. And yes, I agree with you that many reviewers will focus on these features.
I can understand the reviewers to a large degree, because these features are an objective measure. The key problem I see here is that a watch is somewhat of an emotional purchase. Otherwise we'd be wearing Casios and Smartwatches. We are trying to purchase something that triggers an emotional response or conveys status. But that is much harder to quantify, and it differentiates watches from a commodity.
Yet marketing departments of watch manufacturers are also latching onto these features, trying to establish claims that the competition cannot make, no matter whether that feature is relevant. (The helium valve is a prime example, unless you plan on spending some quality time in a decompression chamber.)
But even that is my subjective opinion. Maybe some people really want a helium valve, and that would be valid, because mechanical watches are not about what a person actually needs, but all about what they want.
I do think at a certain price level, watches should at least be providing a bracelet that doesn't pinch hairs and a sapphire crystal. It's wild when an $80 Pagani Design can offer Sapphire but a $200 watch can't. I know there's a difference in the companies and profit margins and all that, but it would be nice to get a little bit more.
I do think at a certain price level, watches should at least be providing a bracelet that doesn't pinch hairs and a sapphire crystal. It's wild when an $80 Pagani Design can offer Sapphire but a $200 watch can't. I know there's a difference in the companies and profit margins and all that, but it would be nice to get a little bit more.
This is a tricky question from my point of view. Whether I want a sapphire crystal depends on the thickness, the QC, if it's domed, and the AR coating. I see a thin flat sapphire crystal as a trade-off against a more shatter-proof mineral glass.
If the "reviewer" gets a free watch or has any potential financial benefit from a watch they talk about, that's NOT a review. That's an advertisement. No exceptions.