Peak Sub..?

I’m not real familiar with the numbers, but I will say I was disappointed the first time I saw a modern Sub. It just looks chunky in a way I don’t love. To me, the older Subs look better than anything from the last 20 years.

Way too big and flashy, right?

I don’t like how much wider the lugs at than the bracelet, and I think the case could be a little smaller. I’m ok with the flash…I like it in the same way that a Grand Seiko flashes. I’m good with a tool watch that looks fancy, I just think it would look better if it were a little slimmer.

I like all older Subs as they are charming. However I admire how Rolex modernized the Sub when they introduced the 114060 Maxi case, but on my wrist it feels like a brick.

My love goes to the No date 124060 because it’s updated and slimmer lugs.

I do like the classical "tool" watch look of the sub before the maxi case made it more of a "luxury" watch even though the movement and bracelet updates are far better.

The 2 lines of text would be my most preferred version of the classical sub look.

When it starts getting more than 3 lines of dial text I start to think "less, truly is more"

Both are 14060M's but...

I think the best modern sub is a BB54 ! Done ! AND 1/3 the price retail.

I’ll let you know as soon as it comes close to perfection.

16610LV. Does everything right except the clasp. The clasp on the Submariner always sucked though... to this day.

Always to personal taste, but I had the 16610 as well as the 16613, and moved them both along. For me, the 126610lv, has been a really good to me. Although I have small wrists, I feel like this is a genuine tool watch. The new and improved bracelet and clasp is a modern consideration that I appreciate. It's often unsaid, more often considered a reason of this taste, I really do like the clasp. The clasp of the watch is a little bulky, sure, but when you hold your hand like you're shaking someone's hand, the head of the watch and the bracelet balance each other out and does not cause the watch to be head heavy, like the old ones. Little quality of life improvements, such as added AR coating as well as antimagnetism, are equally appreciated.

Agreed… maxi case lacked the finesse of earlier models, but they totally fixed it with the 124060. Old skool looks with a modern movement and near perfect bracelet and clasp.

Ah, do you think? What could be improved?

I might agree with the previous gen bracelets (brick pattern), but I have a modern oyster clasp on my explorer - I find it does what it needs to.

Now if they can remove all high polished metal it would look bada$$.

The new clasp is inefficiently constructed which makes it too long, objectively. At first thought a longer folding piece means it fits over a bigger hand but of course it isn't that simple, because basic geometry dictates that the expansion provided by the folding piece is as much as the length of the shorter segment.

Here's an old clasp, notice how similar in length the long and short segment are and how close their ands are when the clasp is closed. Very efficient.

Here's the next generation (these were made less than a year apart) so it's still friction shut and not the latest one with the hook. Notice how much former apart the screw (where the stiff bit ends) is from the end of the short segment. Indeed, the bottom clasp (or rather rigid folding piece) is 5mm longer but provides no more extension than the above.

Here's what needs to change. The red thing needs to go where the blue markings are in the bottom image. I'm not even inventing this, it's how it used to be. Hell, there's a sleeve on a rod where the bracelet should attach (i.e. where blue marking is). It's as if they are taking the piss by showing they had space to attach something to that bit but woke up and chose not to. One step forward, two steps back... I suppose Rolex need to make it worse so they can "refine" it later on. Nomos gets the hard end of the stick a lot for having excessively long lugs, this is no different.

I don't have one at hand but from memory the latest generation is even less efficient in that regard as the hook takes more space than this mechanism. Most clasp are still fine but pair that with the absolutely humongous outer shell on the Submariner that provides extension beyond what anyone could ever need and you get the "super-clasp" which goes well with the "super-case" I suppose. I hate them both for the same reason, bulk. I hate bulk.... but I also wear 34mm Rolex so maybe I am over reacting and over sensitive.

What aggravates this is that other brands then go ahead and do it the "Rolex Way" and make similarly shit clasps. Here's Monta which took it to the next level. Look at how much longer the long segment is, the short one ends right near the hole but the longer goes on for what seems like another five feet. What in the actual f@#% were they thinking...

Well, they must have seen this and did something similar.

Omega has done similar things with their butterfly clasps.

You are probably right. I'd like a modern BB58 or 54 with white and silver and no gilt. Everyone loves the gilt and nostalgia but the 5512s and 5513s didn't come that way. I guess the pelagos 39 is close but less versatile than the BBs. I'm back to square one with my oris 65 with the Cal 400 and the 12 hour bezel. It's obviously looking back in design but with no gilt. We will sew how it ages.