Genuine antique or fake?
I came across this stunning watch this morning and thought I would ask our vintage experts for their opinions on it. As you can see from the pictures, there is no branding on the watch or movement whatsoever. I did a Google image search and found a couple of listings with identical pictures claiming that the watch is new old stock from the 1930s, never worn etc etc, and both listings had crazy sold prices, £560 and €900 respectively. I am struggling to believe this. Here is a link to a sold listing on 1st Dibs as an example.
What say you vintage experts? Too good to be true, or the real deal?
My interest in watches began when i started watching restoration videos on youtube. I then began watching reviers like Ben, from Bens Watch Club. The first watch that I bought myself was a vintage Lor...
Seems rather odd, no names on dial or movement.
Seems rather odd, no names on dial or movement.
My thoughts exactly. Also, the lume on my watch and on the one in the link are near as dammit identical, and that is a red flag for me.
I am not an expert. I am just a guy who has too many old watches and has looked at thousands of pictures of watches on the internet. A couple of observations:
It is not unusual that it is unbranded. All of these parts were made in mostly different factories in Switzerland (or maybe in this case, Germany). Unbranded watches were made by larger manufacturers and smaller ones. They are more common before WWII.
It is not NOS. There is wear around the edge of the dial that a watch only gets by being worn. These wear patterns are less obvious in round dial watches. Also, there appears to be wear where the crystal and case meets (slight chipping of glass). The case has lost its fine polish. There appears to be some wear on the lug tips. I suspect that this watch is German, for the German market, due to "edelstahl" on the case back (it just means stainless steel).
I am not entirely convinced that the handset is original. It may be, but those would be unusual hands pre-1950. That is a large amount of radium lume for a non-wartime watch. A Geiger counter would let you know how "hot" it is. The watch was stored a long time in a dry place if that is truly radium lume. It may have been re-lumed later. Radium paint becomes dark with exposure to moisture and age. See almost anything I own.
I don't recognize the movement. Perhaps someone like @MrBloke or @Porthole would know it without an hour's research. There are sites that will give you a good estimate of the movement's age, I just don't want to spend the time. It is not fully jeweled, so it is not high-end, even for its time. Late 1930's, early 1940's would not be a bad guess.
Unless you could prove that this was a Rolex, Omega, or some other big name brand watch, even in perfectly working condition, I would not pay anything near those prices. This watch should be had for much less than $100.00 USD.
I don't know enough to call it a "fake". If it is all original, it is a $60.00 watch in perfectly working order. If it needs work: $20.00. (I think that it needs works because it is set to "F".)
I am not an expert. I am just a guy who has too many old watches and has looked at thousands of pictures of watches on the internet. A couple of observations:
It is not unusual that it is unbranded. All of these parts were made in mostly different factories in Switzerland (or maybe in this case, Germany). Unbranded watches were made by larger manufacturers and smaller ones. They are more common before WWII.
It is not NOS. There is wear around the edge of the dial that a watch only gets by being worn. These wear patterns are less obvious in round dial watches. Also, there appears to be wear where the crystal and case meets (slight chipping of glass). The case has lost its fine polish. There appears to be some wear on the lug tips. I suspect that this watch is German, for the German market, due to "edelstahl" on the case back (it just means stainless steel).
I am not entirely convinced that the handset is original. It may be, but those would be unusual hands pre-1950. That is a large amount of radium lume for a non-wartime watch. A Geiger counter would let you know how "hot" it is. The watch was stored a long time in a dry place if that is truly radium lume. It may have been re-lumed later. Radium paint becomes dark with exposure to moisture and age. See almost anything I own.
I don't recognize the movement. Perhaps someone like @MrBloke or @Porthole would know it without an hour's research. There are sites that will give you a good estimate of the movement's age, I just don't want to spend the time. It is not fully jeweled, so it is not high-end, even for its time. Late 1930's, early 1940's would not be a bad guess.
Unless you could prove that this was a Rolex, Omega, or some other big name brand watch, even in perfectly working condition, I would not pay anything near those prices. This watch should be had for much less than $100.00 USD.
I don't know enough to call it a "fake". If it is all original, it is a $60.00 watch in perfectly working order. If it needs work: $20.00. (I think that it needs works because it is set to "F".)
Many thanks for your input, I agree 100% that the watch is most likely German, I also agree that my watch is not NOS, but the description in the link claims that theirs is. I also agree that some work may be needed as it is running at +11 sec / day (maybe not too shabby for a watch that is 80+ years old)
Not much I can add to Aurelian’s comments. It looks to me like the radium lume has been washed off the dial and the darkness where the numerals are is some residual radiation burn. Maybe when the hands were relumed with non-radioactive material, the radium was taken off the dial at the same time.
I can’t be sure about that but it’s one option to explore.
PUW 500?
PUW 500?
That looks to be exactly what it is, thanks Chris.