Movement
Guys and gals I apologize if this has been asked before but I've only been here a few weeks and whenever I hear the word movement it drives me crazy. What am I looking for to determine if a watch is a GOOD watch based off of its movement? Specifics would be really helpful because, to be honest, I'm LOST in regard to movement! What makes a Patek so much more expensive than say, a Grand Seiko? And I'm REALLY dumbfounded by Richard Mille prices, they look almost like toy, McDonald's watches. Thanks for reading and ANY assistance.
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Finishing, decoration, and complication. None of which do anything for a movement’s performance or longevity (except for cost in repairs and servicing).
I wouldn’t worry about a watch’s movement unless you have $5000+ to spend. If you have that much coin right now and are a watch nerd, then pick a watch with the fanciest and prettiest finished movement you can find.
Well, as a non-expert, here's what I've learned so far:
A better movement is one which is easy enough to fix, runs within its stated specifications no matter what watch it's in.
The 'best' movements run with tighter tolerances and may be built with higher-end components
The 'luxury' movements have additional complications or functions (sometimes), or involve far more hand-crafting.
At some point, it then becomes about perceived value based on brand history or precious metals / jewels in the case, dial...
And beyond all that, is the idea of the watch-as-mechanical-art sold in very low numbers, made of vibranium.
The big thing is if the company makes the movement themselves or buys it from somebody else. Most micro brands use movements like the NH35 from Seiko. It’s a good movement, does it’s job, and is easy to service, but they don’t win awards for originality or beauty. Another option is companies buying a movement from another company, then decorating it, or regulating it to keep better time.
Companies like Patek have spent years developing their own movements, and that’s some of what you pay for.
I personally care about the overall look of a watch much more than the movement. Another thing to remember is that a common movement is easier to get serviced than a rare movement from a company like Patek or JLC.
Personally, I look for a good movement with a history of reliability like the ETA 2824 or Sallita SW200. They don’t set the world on fire, but they do their job. The term people use is “workhorse” movement. But if you’re buying a watch for $500 with one of these movements, you can feel good about the fact others are buying watches at $2000 with the same movement.
Hope this helps.
After looks, the movement is the first spec I review. A good looking watch can be immediately ruined by a lousy movement. And yes, one can judge a movement at all price points. Couple items:
As @thekris pointed out, there are different levels of movements. As you scale up there are factors.
Quality and materials of components (including metallurgy)
Accuracy
Power reserve
Ease of service
Reliability
Size, including integrated complications
Finishing
The more you move up market, the more all of the above improve. When I am considering any watch I (usually) have a set price I am willing to pay for a watch based on movement, again at any price point. IE, I am not paying more than $400 for any watch with an NH35. No more than $2000 (high end) for a SW200 or ETA 2824. $1000 for any Seiko 6 series, and so on. Once we get into Rolex, Spring Drives, Co-axials, micro rotors, etc, we set new ceilings.
Those small difference in all of the above keeps us watch nerds active.
After looks, the movement is the first spec I review. A good looking watch can be immediately ruined by a lousy movement. And yes, one can judge a movement at all price points. Couple items:
As @thekris pointed out, there are different levels of movements. As you scale up there are factors.
Quality and materials of components (including metallurgy)
Accuracy
Power reserve
Ease of service
Reliability
Size, including integrated complications
Finishing
The more you move up market, the more all of the above improve. When I am considering any watch I (usually) have a set price I am willing to pay for a watch based on movement, again at any price point. IE, I am not paying more than $400 for any watch with an NH35. No more than $2000 (high end) for a SW200 or ETA 2824. $1000 for any Seiko 6 series, and so on. Once we get into Rolex, Spring Drives, Co-axials, micro rotors, etc, we set new ceilings.
Those small difference in all of the above keeps us watch nerds active.
One thing I’d mention and am surprised by is that more expensive movements often don’t have better specs. There are lots of expensive watches with 40hr power reserves, but a $650 PRX has 80hr reserve. Mostly you get better accuracy for more money, but not always.
The bottom line is that a bad movement will ruin a watch, but the world is full of good movements. There are just lots of forms this good movements can come in.
One thing I’d mention and am surprised by is that more expensive movements often don’t have better specs. There are lots of expensive watches with 40hr power reserves, but a $650 PRX has 80hr reserve. Mostly you get better accuracy for more money, but not always.
The bottom line is that a bad movement will ruin a watch, but the world is full of good movements. There are just lots of forms this good movements can come in.
The PRX has an 80 hour power reserve because they took a movement with a 40 hour power reserve (2824-2) running at 28800 vph (4Hz) and then modded it to run at a slower beat rate 21600 vph (3Hz). A slower beat rate means the mainspring unwinds at a slower rate and therefore the power stored in the mainspring lasts longer.
Really I would start reading and watching videos on watch movements. Everyone hear has good information. But you can get more through research. It will amaze you what it takes to build a high end movement and why they cost so much. However there are so many types of movements from autos, quartz, knetic....
Check out a post I have on my profile. It's a tour of the JLC factory in Switzerland and what goes into making a movement.
Cheers!
One thing I’d mention and am surprised by is that more expensive movements often don’t have better specs. There are lots of expensive watches with 40hr power reserves, but a $650 PRX has 80hr reserve. Mostly you get better accuracy for more money, but not always.
The bottom line is that a bad movement will ruin a watch, but the world is full of good movements. There are just lots of forms this good movements can come in.
Absolutely, I did my best to qualify it with most. There are some amazing $10K plus manual wound watches with 40 hour power reserve.
Here's my idiosyncratic take on movements - I'm a broken record:
Here's my idiosyncratic take on movements - I'm a broken record:
Hey, I have a SRAM drive train! :-)
CVTs are absolutely the worst, especially Nissan. On the other hand, my wife loves Subaru and there is nothing I can say or do to convince her otherwise.
The PRX has an 80 hour power reserve because they took a movement with a 40 hour power reserve (2824-2) running at 28800 vph (4Hz) and then modded it to run at a slower beat rate 21600 vph (3Hz). A slower beat rate means the mainspring unwinds at a slower rate and therefore the power stored in the mainspring lasts longer.
Now that you mention it, I wonder if its possible to reverse engineer it to make a hi-beat movement. Of course you'd probably have 8 or 9 hours of power reserve at best. 😂
complication, finishing, design, innovation and brand = Price.
Richard Mille is expensive because of it's complication, innovation and exclusivity. It's a really tough watch made with expensive material, it is so exclusive that they designed a screw just for the model. And yes it's the brand's positioning.
Patak is expensive for its history, movement (complication/accuracy), finishing and of course the brand's positioning.
However, quartz movements are far more accurate than the best mechanical movement. So for the watchmaker so get as close as possible to quartz, every nano second counts, take a lot of skills and efforts that's what make movement expensive.
I wouldn't say that Patek is more accurate than GS or vice versa.
A movement is the heart of a watch. Just like the engine is the heart of an automobile. That is why it is important.
As for price, because they can (charge that much and still sell).
As to the original question: The watch prices have little to do with having "a good movement". From a pure practical perspective you shouldn't have to spend more than $200 on a movement to get something that works reliably and accurately. (Personally, I'm fine with a $30 movement.)
The reasons why movements are discussed is that they stand out on a spec sheet. Chances are that any common movement will work just fine for you.
Watches offerings vary mostly by design and build quality, but that is hard to quantify. You may realize that as soon as you hold a watch in your hand, but not prior to that.
Hey, I have a SRAM drive train! :-)
CVTs are absolutely the worst, especially Nissan. On the other hand, my wife loves Subaru and there is nothing I can say or do to convince her otherwise.
I have a dirty little secret I gotta admit... I also have a SRAM drive train!
Well, as a non-expert, here's what I've learned so far:
A better movement is one which is easy enough to fix, runs within its stated specifications no matter what watch it's in.
The 'best' movements run with tighter tolerances and may be built with higher-end components
The 'luxury' movements have additional complications or functions (sometimes), or involve far more hand-crafting.
At some point, it then becomes about perceived value based on brand history or precious metals / jewels in the case, dial...
And beyond all that, is the idea of the watch-as-mechanical-art sold in very low numbers, made of vibranium.
Thanks a lot!
The big thing is if the company makes the movement themselves or buys it from somebody else. Most micro brands use movements like the NH35 from Seiko. It’s a good movement, does it’s job, and is easy to service, but they don’t win awards for originality or beauty. Another option is companies buying a movement from another company, then decorating it, or regulating it to keep better time.
Companies like Patek have spent years developing their own movements, and that’s some of what you pay for.
I personally care about the overall look of a watch much more than the movement. Another thing to remember is that a common movement is easier to get serviced than a rare movement from a company like Patek or JLC.
Personally, I look for a good movement with a history of reliability like the ETA 2824 or Sallita SW200. They don’t set the world on fire, but they do their job. The term people use is “workhorse” movement. But if you’re buying a watch for $500 with one of these movements, you can feel good about the fact others are buying watches at $2000 with the same movement.
Hope this helps.
THIS helps a lot, I've actually heard of BOTH of those movements! I also care more about the looks, I thought I wasn't a watch aficionado because I knew NOTHING about movements but as I said, I HAVE heard of those movements! Thanks a LOT!
Really I would start reading and watching videos on watch movements. Everyone hear has good information. But you can get more through research. It will amaze you what it takes to build a high end movement and why they cost so much. However there are so many types of movements from autos, quartz, knetic....
Check out a post I have on my profile. It's a tour of the JLC factory in Switzerland and what goes into making a movement.
Cheers!
Thanks, I've just started researching movements a bit. I think I saw that video on YouTube but I didn't click on it. I'll check it out.
complication, finishing, design, innovation and brand = Price.
Richard Mille is expensive because of it's complication, innovation and exclusivity. It's a really tough watch made with expensive material, it is so exclusive that they designed a screw just for the model. And yes it's the brand's positioning.
Patak is expensive for its history, movement (complication/accuracy), finishing and of course the brand's positioning.
However, quartz movements are far more accurate than the best mechanical movement. So for the watchmaker so get as close as possible to quartz, every nano second counts, take a lot of skills and efforts that's what make movement expensive.
I wouldn't say that Patek is more accurate than GS or vice versa.
Is Patek actually more accurate than the GS Springdrive?
Is Patek actually more accurate than the GS Springdrive?
Nah, you can’t really compare the two. They are like apples and oranges. One is quartz timekeeping and the other one focuses on complications. You wont see big difference from daily use. But if you compare based on accuracy alone, GS spring drive is the clear winner.
Nah, you can’t really compare the two. They are like apples and oranges. One is quartz timekeeping and the other one focuses on complications. You wont see big difference from daily use. But if you compare based on accuracy alone, GS spring drive is the clear winner.
Thanks!