Sept 7th visit to Liaoning Peacock in Dandong AMCHPR 2023
My first factory visit this trip was to Liaoning Peacock in Dandong, followed by Shijiazhuang, which I reviewed a few days ago, here:
Peacock is a very strong player in China's modern horological market, seeing considerable success with its own watches (especially tourbillons) and building watch movements used by numerous other companies, like Atelier Wen, Jintuofei, and many more. The new factory displays that recent high profile.
Here's the link to a deep dive at Peacock, and around Dandong from my trip this last September.
https://www.amchpr.com/dandongliaoningpeacock.html
This Atelier Wen has a [correction] Dandong/Peacock caliber SL-3006 automatic movement.
Curator: Alberta Museum of Chinese Horology in Peace River; Member: China Horologe Association; Chief Expert: China Watch Overseas Working Committee (CWOWC); Sino-Canadian Horological Cultural Affairs...
I love these posts of yours. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Never would have though crab roe was a viable flavor for sun flower seeds
Wow. That looks like quite the operation.
Machining is also interesting to me;
Both the green and white machine tools are from Swiss watch-tool companies.
https://www.strausakglobal.com/strausak-history/
https://www.mikron.com/en/group/inside/history
I have seen a Russian company use a HAAS milling machine - to machine cases. I think the Soviets and Chinese purchased movements, designs, equipment, and methods elesewhere. And technology was also transferred from Citizen to India's HMT.
I don’t know much about movements other that whether it’s working or not. What is the relative quality compared to Swiss and Japanese counterparts?
What an operation, thanks for a peek behind the curtain.
I love these posts of yours. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Never would have though crab roe was a viable flavor for sun flower seeds
Re: "Never would have though crab roe was a viable flavor for sun flower seeds"
Was a surprise to me, too.
Machining is also interesting to me;
Both the green and white machine tools are from Swiss watch-tool companies.
https://www.strausakglobal.com/strausak-history/
https://www.mikron.com/en/group/inside/history
I have seen a Russian company use a HAAS milling machine - to machine cases. I think the Soviets and Chinese purchased movements, designs, equipment, and methods elesewhere. And technology was also transferred from Citizen to India's HMT.
The guides made a big point about using Swiss machining. They were proud of it, very open about it, and should be.
I've seen enough first hand to know that, when needed, Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they also often don't bother if they feel they don't need to because a good Swiss (or other) alternative exists..
In my experience, Chinese manufacturers always clearly credit Swiss (and German) horological skill and quality.
Zhuhai Rossini was very much a similar case.
I don’t know much about movements other that whether it’s working or not. What is the relative quality compared to Swiss and Japanese counterparts?
I\ve always been happy with any watches I have from Liaoning, whether vintage (SL-1 or Sl-2) or modern (as in my Hao,)
The details provided by Atelier Wen at Calibre Corner here might offer some insight: Dandong/Peacock caliber SL-3006
I know things have improved at Peacock since 2013, but this comparison from Christian at the Watch Guy Watch Repair blog is still useful and fair: https://watchguy.co.uk/comparison-sea-gull-st2130-eta-2824-2-peacock-sl3000/
This 2013 comparison by Lysanderiii at Watchuseek is also fair: https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/comparison-of-the-liaoning-peacock-sl3000-and-the-sea-gull-2130.883205/
The guides made a big point about using Swiss machining. They were proud of it, very open about it, and should be.
I've seen enough first hand to know that, when needed, Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they also often don't bother if they feel they don't need to because a good Swiss (or other) alternative exists..
In my experience, Chinese manufacturers always clearly credit Swiss (and German) horological skill and quality.
Zhuhai Rossini was very much a similar case.
"Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they also often don't bother if they feel they don't need to."
That is the primary point;
When you look at an inexpensive Seiko, Swatch Group, Citizen, Timex or even the $49 Casio Duro I posted in WRUW everything is of high, consistent, and standard quality. The machines might be the same (even some of the factors making the components or assembling the product might be the same, but the cultural-ethos and commitment to the product and customer is different.
Speaking of the watches I own; The production-ethos of Grand Seiko is off the charts. The Zaratzu polishing is not the "bull-shit" it is the "shiz-nit"
Then in Rolex its spectacular. Omega and Oris are also spectacular for the price point.
ADVChina puts out some great videos and they talk about "tofu-dreg" building construction. The machines might all be the same but the cultural ethos is different.
So you might get access to something you might not be able to afford by buying Chinese such a tourbion or $300 chronograph or a homage or snazzy micro-brand. You might get lucky or not.
"Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they also often don't bother if they feel they don't need to."
That is the primary point;
When you look at an inexpensive Seiko, Swatch Group, Citizen, Timex or even the $49 Casio Duro I posted in WRUW everything is of high, consistent, and standard quality. The machines might be the same (even some of the factors making the components or assembling the product might be the same, but the cultural-ethos and commitment to the product and customer is different.
Speaking of the watches I own; The production-ethos of Grand Seiko is off the charts. The Zaratzu polishing is not the "bull-shit" it is the "shiz-nit"
Then in Rolex its spectacular. Omega and Oris are also spectacular for the price point.
ADVChina puts out some great videos and they talk about "tofu-dreg" building construction. The machines might all be the same but the cultural ethos is different.
So you might get access to something you might not be able to afford by buying Chinese such a tourbion or $300 chronograph or a homage or snazzy micro-brand. You might get lucky or not.
Well, that's not at all what I meant--but I can see why you interpreted it that way. My bad. (I edited my post to be clearer).
The point I was making with "Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they alsooften don't bother if they feel they don't need to" was merely that Chinese manufacturers will happily use Swiss equipment when they think it is better and/or more cost-effective than building their own.
As well, there's no shortage of people complaining about lower end Seiko quality, for example. There's also the fact that Timex uses Chinese movements in lots of their products.
And I'm also old enough to easily remember when "cheap Japanese quality" was as commonly expressed as similar comments about China, today--even past when it was certainly no longer broadly true.
I’m getting my first Chinese watch soon. It’s a Atlier Wen perception. I considered the movement to be important not as important as the design of the piece. I have no illusions regarding the movement. If it runs + 10 seconds a day that would be fine. I took the chance after a interesting experience with a car. I’ve owned mostly MB or BMW for years. Recently drove a Genesis. Case closed
Well, that's not at all what I meant--but I can see why you interpreted it that way. My bad. (I edited my post to be clearer).
The point I was making with "Chinese manufacturers can produce excellent domestic machining--but many factory visits have made it clear to me they alsooften don't bother if they feel they don't need to" was merely that Chinese manufacturers will happily use Swiss equipment when they think it is better and/or more cost-effective than building their own.
As well, there's no shortage of people complaining about lower end Seiko quality, for example. There's also the fact that Timex uses Chinese movements in lots of their products.
And I'm also old enough to easily remember when "cheap Japanese quality" was as commonly expressed as similar comments about China, today--even past when it was certainly no longer broadly true.
as a kid "Japan" made the stuff in the souvenir shops - so yep on that observation.
I agree, Were it not for China, many watches would cost quite a bit more than they do now. I am sure many a swiss watch has Chinese parts.
Off topic a bit
Friend visited her mom in China and suggested to me that 1) inflation is rampant 2) and the economy is deflating
Me, I think that lots of cheap "credit" in China and the US led to many bad business decisions and bad investents. It might be possible that lots of stuff bound for the US was exported below cost.
Back on topic of Watches;
I like the idea that HMT Janta produced watches at a price point for the local market; These watches were most likely the prized possession of many people.
My first Seiko 5 watch (which still keeps time very well without service) was a prized possession and is now a cherished sentimental item fifty five years later.
as a kid "Japan" made the stuff in the souvenir shops - so yep on that observation.
I agree, Were it not for China, many watches would cost quite a bit more than they do now. I am sure many a swiss watch has Chinese parts.
Off topic a bit
Friend visited her mom in China and suggested to me that 1) inflation is rampant 2) and the economy is deflating
Me, I think that lots of cheap "credit" in China and the US led to many bad business decisions and bad investents. It might be possible that lots of stuff bound for the US was exported below cost.
Back on topic of Watches;
I like the idea that HMT Janta produced watches at a price point for the local market; These watches were most likely the prized possession of many people.
My first Seiko 5 watch (which still keeps time very well without service) was a prized possession and is now a cherished sentimental item fifty five years later.
I have a few HMT watches, all of which are wonderful in their own way. And they just keep working. Serious fan of HMT.
As for Seiko (and Citizen): No company is perfect, but I don't know of many other watch companies that compete as well as they do across as broad a range of market segments. I mean, and for example, Rolex is wonderful, but where's their "5"?
Especially Seiko: no matter what your wallet--a Seiko is a pretty safe bet (hardlex aside) for toughness, legibility and some legit visual flash. At the upper levels, Seiko finishing is the stuff of legends, for good reason.
Now Peacock watches are selling their own brand watches globally.
https://peacockwatches.com/