Why does no one talk about Paul Smith watches?
I was wondering what is everyone's opinion of Paul Smith watches? I find it strange that the watch enthusiast community (including YouTube watch reviewers) totally bypass watches from fashion brands such as Paul Smith (and Agnes B by Seiko etc etc) . Yes, as a watch enthusiast myself I understand that horologicaly speaking they are not significant compared to true watch brands. However, their watches are made by Citizen (a true watch brand), and their adventurous designs (which are often obviously designed by people who love watches) often put to shame the often boring designs of many traditional watch brands. They are often more popular among non-watch-enthusiast normal people compared to watch lovers due to their designs, but the watch enthusiast community seems to totally bypass them. Is there a thread or a video that talks about them within the watch enthusiast community?
Hello! I have been collecting watches (and studying watch making) for 4 years now although I have felt the pull in me towards watches, especially mechanical ones, all my life. (actually I came back to...
Not sure of the last line is rhetorical, or actually a request for someone to type 'Paul Smith watches' into the search engine on YouTube, or any number of watch forums? Regardless, I would simply say this:
Content makers make content they hope will get clicks. A fashion brand watch, where the beauty is literally only skin deep (cos all the underpinnings are bog-standard quartz stuff like you'd find in a $10 service station watch), isn't going to be of huge interest to 'watch people' in a broad sense. It may interest someone into design (industrial, or otherwise), but in a world that already has too many watches to look at them all, I'd say the average content creator would think, why stop and make something about a Paul Smith watch, when I can make something that will actually interest more people? It'd be along those lines.
PS: Is Paul Smith even making watches any more? Its website doesn't have any watches on it.
Thank you Rob for your reply! The last line was an actual request, as I have already typed in "Paul Smith watches" on Youtube (nothing on the usual watch channels) and many online sites and the result has been very scarce (the result was 0 on this forum) . My post here was a result of me already doing that myself. What you describe was exactly what I myself thought before I knew about their watches. Bog-standard $10 quartz movement fashion watches with funky designs (meh.... ). But once you see a few of their watches, you'll notice that this description does not apply to them. For example I was trying to find out a review video (to find out about the movement inside) about this 600 limited edition automatic watch by them (apparently it's a model within their masterpiece series), but there is nothing. https://aucview.aucfan.com/yahoo/b167567667/
Green gold version of the same watch here as well. https://jp.mercari.com/item/m79807116792
I think you've answered your own question in your initial post.
Some examples here. (apologies for all the sites being Japanese shopping sites..)
There is this automatic（the movement in this is easily identifiable as a Miyota 8000 series) but the compass on the caseback is really cool. https://www.2ndstreet.jp/goods/detail/goodsId/2319370987698/shopsId/30311
And another one here also with also an easy Miyota, but the movement is coloured. https://www.sara-mac.com/watch/paul-smith-masterpiece-psx42-1091.html
and these quartz designs seems classically inspired. (scroll down to see the listed watch) https://item.fril.jp/3911c2f965199184fc4853580722ed7e
I think you've answered your own question in your initial post.
That was more from a superficial perspective, as in I can understand that watch enthusiasts could have that impression and not consider these brands due to some horological snobbery without actually seeing what is on offer. However, what I was trying to say was that there is more to these brands once you look more closely. If they use miyota mechanical movements, made in good quality factories in Japan owned by traditional watch brands, have their own very original designs (not homages) etc... What prevents watch enthusiasts (many of whom love similar or lower quality aliexpress or micro brand watches) from considering them? That was the gist of my question, as well as a request to find out more about the linked Masterpiece series.
Literally the only watch channel on Youtube that came up with the search.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd6x5YMrXus&t=137s&ab_channel=watchcollector
Ralph Lauren makes a great watch. Only the prices put me off!
Hermes and Louis Vuitton more established horologically interesting fashion brands..
Who owns the license for Paul smith watches is the question. Fossil?
It’s ‘swico’. Never heard of them.
https://www.watchpro.com/watch-shop-launches-with-entire-paul-smith-range-2/
and they’re owned by movado now.
https://movadogroupinc.gcs-web.com/node/8021/pdf
That was more from a superficial perspective, as in I can understand that watch enthusiasts could have that impression and not consider these brands due to some horological snobbery without actually seeing what is on offer. However, what I was trying to say was that there is more to these brands once you look more closely. If they use miyota mechanical movements, made in good quality factories in Japan owned by traditional watch brands, have their own very original designs (not homages) etc... What prevents watch enthusiasts (many of whom love similar or lower quality aliexpress or micro brand watches) from considering them? That was the gist of my question, as well as a request to find out more about the linked Masterpiece series.
There are plenty of brands that put an entry level movement into a watch case. That in itself doesn't distinguish the watch brand. Therefore you have to compete on design or price. In most cases the new watch company doesn't distinguish itself enough from the competition.
It’s ‘swico’. Never heard of them.
https://www.watchpro.com/watch-shop-launches-with-entire-paul-smith-range-2/
and they’re owned by movado now.
https://movadogroupinc.gcs-web.com/node/8021/pdf
Aren't those distribution and marketing companies? The question is who makes the watches. Some of their watches have swiss made on them and some Japan made. I believe the japan made ones are made by Citizen.
Ralph Lauren makes a great watch. Only the prices put me off!
Hermes and Louis Vuitton more established horologically interesting fashion brands..
True. Also Abercrombie and Fitch used to have nice watches too. I have seen some gorgeous vintage watches from them.
There are plenty of brands that put an entry level movement into a watch case. That in itself doesn't distinguish the watch brand. Therefore you have to compete on design or price. In most cases the new watch company doesn't distinguish itself enough from the competition.
That applies to a lot of micro brands or aliexpress brands which are generally loved by the watch enthusiast community though. I don't think Paul Smith watches is new... I see some watches from them in the second hand market from the early 90s... Their older watches are nicer than the current ones I feel.
Aren't those distribution and marketing companies? The question is who makes the watches. Some of their watches have swiss made on them and some Japan made. I believe the japan made ones are made by Citizen.
Movado makes watches.
That applies to a lot of micro brands or aliexpress brands which are generally loved by the watch enthusiast community though. I don't think Paul Smith watches is new... I see some watches from them in the second hand market from the early 90s... Their older watches are nicer than the current ones I feel.
There are tons of companies like that. AliExpress on the other hand competes very strongly on price, and is hard to beat in that regard.
There are a lot of fashion brands, some are liked, others not so much. I believe it all boils down to design, and many fashion brands depend too strongly on the brand recognition of the main brand.
Or let me ask differently: What would you consider the main value proposition of Paul Smith watches?
There are tons of companies like that. AliExpress on the other hand competes very strongly on price, and is hard to beat in that regard.
There are a lot of fashion brands, some are liked, others not so much. I believe it all boils down to design, and many fashion brands depend too strongly on the brand recognition of the main brand.
Or let me ask differently: What would you consider the main value proposition of Paul Smith watches?
Definitely originality of design on some of their watches could be something to consider I think. I'm not a Paul Smith fan or anything. I didn't even look at their watches until recently due to being that watch enthusiast that looks down at fashion brand watches (I still don't like the fossil group for example that does a lot of fashion brands). What I found strange was that the Watch enthusiast community totally bypasses the brand even though I feel there have been some nice designs and watches over the years by them. After all, it's not about the brand, if there is even one nice watch out of hundreds of insignificant watches, wouldn't that one watch be worth talking about regardless of the brand? Gary's video here for example changed my mind a little about Agnes B watches (that I feel it's quite similar to Paul smith in concept and quality). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAuAFXk9aYo&t=108s&ab_channel=ILikeWatches2
Literally the only watch channel on Youtube that came up with the search.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd6x5YMrXus&t=137s&ab_channel=watchcollector
Nice, the bracelet looks like a Patek Philippe Neptune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWVLlI5-LKY
There is a lot of brands that aren't talked about. I do try my best to bring it up when appropriate.
I can only tell you why I don't talk about Paul Smith or Agnes B and that's because I have never seen one and wouldn't actually know where to find one to have a look in person.
Definitely originality of design on some of their watches could be something to consider I think. I'm not a Paul Smith fan or anything. I didn't even look at their watches until recently due to being that watch enthusiast that looks down at fashion brand watches (I still don't like the fossil group for example that does a lot of fashion brands). What I found strange was that the Watch enthusiast community totally bypasses the brand even though I feel there have been some nice designs and watches over the years by them. After all, it's not about the brand, if there is even one nice watch out of hundreds of insignificant watches, wouldn't that one watch be worth talking about regardless of the brand? Gary's video here for example changed my mind a little about Agnes B watches (that I feel it's quite similar to Paul smith in concept and quality). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAuAFXk9aYo&t=108s&ab_channel=ILikeWatches2
I would say that the enthusiast community bypasses most fashion watches. But enthusiasts are not the main buyer of these watches either, but rather the general consumer.
While I find some of their designs interesting, it looks like they got caught in the minimalist look that doesn't offer a lot of differentiation. Unless I'm mistaken, these watches are not being offered anymore.
I bought a Paul Smith tank-style quartz watch about 12 years ago at an airport duty free shop in Seoul. I liked the dial design. I wore it every day for around 8 years. It suited me as a non-watch collector, but when I think of all the other watches I could've have gotten for the same price (around US$350), I cringe a little.
There is a lot of brands that aren't talked about. I do try my best to bring it up when appropriate.
I can only tell you why I don't talk about Paul Smith or Agnes B and that's because I have never seen one and wouldn't actually know where to find one to have a look in person.
For some reason these watches seem to be very popular with the average consumer in Japan where I live, and you can find them in most watch stores. And every time I see one that tickles my curiosity, I look for a review in the online watch enthusiast communities, and there I see a lack of reviews about them, hence it was this post here. I personally think that a lot of the fashion brands (granted, there is a whole variety of levels in quality there within this genre, so I'm talking about the better ones) offer nice or new designs that I wish some traditional watch makers would dare to try.
I bought a Paul Smith tank-style quartz watch about 12 years ago at an airport duty free shop in Seoul. I liked the dial design. I wore it every day for around 8 years. It suited me as a non-watch collector, but when I think of all the other watches I could've have gotten for the same price (around US$350), I cringe a little.
The pricing is quite expensive, I agree... What was the movement in that one?
I would say that the enthusiast community bypasses most fashion watches. But enthusiasts are not the main buyer of these watches either, but rather the general consumer.
While I find some of their designs interesting, it looks like they got caught in the minimalist look that doesn't offer a lot of differentiation. Unless I'm mistaken, these watches are not being offered anymore.
I agree, the enthusiast community bypasses most fashion watches and they are more for the general consumer. However, I think that there could be some gems design-wise to be found among some of the better fashion brands. The enthusiast community lumps this genre all into one and bypasses them altogether without actually looking at what is on offer, I think. I agree about the new watches of Paul smith. Nothing special, especially considering the prices. I only look at some of their older models, and they have some nice ones here and there over a long span of time.
For some reason these watches seem to be very popular with the average consumer in Japan where I live, and you can find them in most watch stores. And every time I see one that tickles my curiosity, I look for a review in the online watch enthusiast communities, and there I see a lack of reviews about them, hence it was this post here. I personally think that a lot of the fashion brands (granted, there is a whole variety of levels in quality there within this genre, so I'm talking about the better ones) offer nice or new designs that I wish some traditional watch makers would dare to try.
Unsurprisingly most online reviews recommended to me by the Social Media Engines are from people in the West, i.e. Europe and US. Here these watches seem rather uncommon which might explain the lack of reviews. That said, are there Japanese channels and if so do they not look at them either?
I agree, the enthusiast community bypasses most fashion watches and they are more for the general consumer. However, I think that there could be some gems design-wise to be found among some of the better fashion brands. The enthusiast community lumps this genre all into one and bypasses them altogether without actually looking at what is on offer, I think. I agree about the new watches of Paul smith. Nothing special, especially considering the prices. I only look at some of their older models, and they have some nice ones here and there over a long span of time.
There are definitely fashion brands that enthusiasts wear. For example, I'm wearing a retro-styled Shinola quartz chrono today. It is a discontinued model I was able to pick up for just north of $200. The leather wristband is excellent, and if you have ever opened one of these watches, you can tell a quality construction, including a US-assembled Ronda quartz movement. Was it worth the original $800 retail? Probably not. This is a common problem with fashion watches, meaning that you are being asked to pay for a brand name that is not tied to a specific watch heritage, and I would guess that this is where you lose watch enthusiasts.