Watches and Wonders - 50,000 ft view there are two types of Watchmaker
There are 40 plus brands and literally hundreds of watches being released at Watches and Wonders 2023 but sitting at the computer and browsing all of them I reckon you can take all the watchmakers there and put them in one of two camps (though a few are perhaps somewhere in the middle). The two camps are:
Expansionists. Companies looking to find new buyers, new markets, new enthusiasts. Very occasionally these guys will even clearly ignore existing customers.
Isolationists. Companies looking to consolidate with their existing buyers, markets and enthusiasts.
Tudor is king of the isolationists - especially at this show. If you were into Tudor before you'll love this years stuff, if you were cold on Tudor previously nothing here will make you any warmer.
TAG is king of the Expansionists. Always on the hunt for the new buyer, perfectly happy to annoy traditionalists, even there own customers by messing with old Heuer designs and not treating them with "respect". But also occasionally hitting it out of the park with a design that makes you look at the whole brand differently (that 40mm domed chrono - hmmm 😍)
Rolex is a tweener this year. Ordinarily Rolex is a massive isolationist but this year (ok these are decisions made in 2020ish so really THAT year) something clearly changed and they are looking to grow.
Curious - do others see the market this way?
Where would you put the various brands showing?
Consistently overthinking watches, still, better than underthinking I guess.
I have not found much of interest. Most of what looks remotely interesting is very exclusive and limited. I'm not sure who they cater for, beyond media for having released something to write about at W&W.
I have a problem when there are more articles about it than units sold. Definitely isolationists.
Maybe the coverage will move to the more attainable pieces.
I’d argue that nothing Rolex is doing is intended to bring in new customers, just get existing customers to buy more watches. I mean, you can’t walk in a buy a Rolex, so what would the point even be of trying to appeal to new folks? I think the intent is to sell “fun” watches or a second Daytona to people with more traditional Rolexes in their collections. Or maybe not.
But, again, since there are no watches available, it doesn’t even matter who Rolex is aiming at.
I find the coverage of W&W hilarious. All the established and wannabe sites fawning over anything Rolex or Tudor for fear of being in the doghouse. I'm biased because I can't stand Tudor and that hideous hour hand. Rolex is the epitome of snobbery. The IWC re intro of the ingenieur looks cool and some of the GS stuff looks good but not seeing much else yet. But most of it is derivative.
Tudor is isolationist? 🙂 I guess whoever from their existing customers / hardcore fans saw this year’s W&W video (ad, whatever) had some mixed feeling as to whether brand is actually switching to younger audience, new buyers, trendy crowd since this ad is bit ridiculous and seems like a joke. Yes, they didn’t change spirit of their watches as such, but looks like they desperately want to attract attention from younger crowd (seasoned Tudor fans don’t need ads like this).
P.S. there was an active thread on WC for this 🙂
New Tudor Releases - Video sucks 🤮
https://www.watchcrunch.com/mjosamannen/posts/new-tudor-releases-video-sucks-30487
I find the coverage of W&W hilarious. All the established and wannabe sites fawning over anything Rolex or Tudor for fear of being in the doghouse. I'm biased because I can't stand Tudor and that hideous hour hand. Rolex is the epitome of snobbery. The IWC re intro of the ingenieur looks cool and some of the GS stuff looks good but not seeing much else yet. But most of it is derivative.
Totally agree with this though not a popular comment in sure.
Same sites releasing almost same reviews of the same Rolex and Tudor watches over and over again like come on write about some other ones - I was hoping rolex would have instead released 5 more factories to tackle BS waiting lists but if course they won't as this plays to their hype.
Not much coverage of the glassbox Tag yet its an amazing watch..
Stop writing about the damn kermit it's for the trolls it's literally same watch as last time.
GS are nice.
ALS no one is gonna spend 130k on watch - funny I showed a few pictures of it to a non watch friend and he though its worth 2k max haha that was funny.
IWC fine, but honestly I wanted to see a scaled down version of the previous model as well as this new vintage inspired release.
Tudor is isolationist? 🙂 I guess whoever from their existing customers / hardcore fans saw this year’s W&W video (ad, whatever) had some mixed feeling as to whether brand is actually switching to younger audience, new buyers, trendy crowd since this ad is bit ridiculous and seems like a joke. Yes, they didn’t change spirit of their watches as such, but looks like they desperately want to attract attention from younger crowd (seasoned Tudor fans don’t need ads like this).
P.S. there was an active thread on WC for this 🙂
New Tudor Releases - Video sucks 🤮
https://www.watchcrunch.com/mjosamannen/posts/new-tudor-releases-video-sucks-30487
Disagree completely. The huge growth of Tudor starting about 6 years ago has been fuelled by the self described Tudor bros on places like youtube and instagram - almost all younger late 20's to early thirties. People getting into watches, dont have really well developed aesthetic tastes so want designs that are proven ok but are well specced, good value and associated with Rolex.
This ad is for them and they are already tudor lovers.
There are two types of commenters: those who mostly agree with the post, and those who mostly don't. Which is just to say that it is fun to divide groups in two, and as long as your parameters are wide enough, the division will appear to be profound.
Logical and linguistic niggling aside, I like you division and see the utility of the framework. I haven't gone through every collection, I am not in the market for most of their wares (maybe in 30 years when they are old and worn). The two that have most impressed me are VC and JLC. These are both clearly "isolationists" as you use the term. They are like Monet with the Rouen Cathedral, "Oh, you liked it in pink, you should see it in green." They are playing to their base.
IWC seem to be expansionist by reviving one of their greatest hits with a modern arrangement (no more mellotron).
I am not sure if the Rolex is playing the middle as you suggest. Big moves are planned years ahead, and too many big moves confuse the message. Given the launch of the 1908, I think that other big moves were postponed to give it space. So, the easiest way to fiddle around is with some jewels and novelty pieces. These will require a manufacturer who makes millions of watches to customize a few hundred. Easy. So, next year might bring a bigger move from the Coronet. When you are at the top it may not make easy sense to be "isolationist" or "expansionist". You may be both at once, whether you intend to be or not.
There are two types of commenters: those who mostly agree with the post, and those who mostly don't. Which is just to say that it is fun to divide groups in two, and as long as your parameters are wide enough, the division will appear to be profound.
Logical and linguistic niggling aside, I like you division and see the utility of the framework. I haven't gone through every collection, I am not in the market for most of their wares (maybe in 30 years when they are old and worn). The two that have most impressed me are VC and JLC. These are both clearly "isolationists" as you use the term. They are like Monet with the Rouen Cathedral, "Oh, you liked it in pink, you should see it in green." They are playing to their base.
IWC seem to be expansionist by reviving one of their greatest hits with a modern arrangement (no more mellotron).
I am not sure if the Rolex is playing the middle as you suggest. Big moves are planned years ahead, and too many big moves confuse the message. Given the launch of the 1908, I think that other big moves were postponed to give it space. So, the easiest way to fiddle around is with some jewels and novelty pieces. These will require a manufacturer who makes millions of watches to customize a few hundred. Easy. So, next year might bring a bigger move from the Coronet. When you are at the top it may not make easy sense to be "isolationist" or "expansionist". You may be both at once, whether you intend to be or not.
I doubt this division would be considered profound ever - I rarely aim for more than 'helpful'.
Im unsure if VC is an isolationist - the introduction of the 56 collection a few years (and which is now wait listed) openned the brand up to huge numbers of new buyers. But otoh since then perhaps they've been consolidating.
JLC is the worst kind of isolationist - just barely playing to their base and like Breguet tumbling out of commercial relevance. The Polaris simply hasnt worked (yet - perhaps it might take)
For IWC I'd throw in their massive move into ceramics (waitlisted and trading at or above retail), the not so big (43mm) big pilot and the emphasis on the top gun, now the configure your own portofino (I think) and the recent genta re-issue. Definately looking to bring in new buyers (reflected in a massive climb up the MS world cup of watches league table).
Ok Rolex - absolutely agree, what we are seeing now is the outcome of decisions made 3-5 years back. Also agree its not a simple switch - ok, lets expand now! - rather for rolex is more gradual and limited in scope. Hence I think they are a tweener.
Remember 2018/19, pre-pandemic and we were beginning to see articles "has the rolex bubble burst?" "where is rolex heading?" "is rolex to dependent on sports models"? I think thats when Rolex started making the changes we are only seeing now (actually probably started last year):
1908 into development and Cellini for the scrap heap
all new (for rolex) material - titanium planned for
off catalog watches moving away from just bedazzling and playing with enamels etc
increasing use exhibition casebacks - my guess, complications are coming next for the 1908
a bit of rationalising - airking cleaned up/milguass gone.
oh - and new factories openned up.
I doubt this division would be considered profound ever - I rarely aim for more than 'helpful'.
Im unsure if VC is an isolationist - the introduction of the 56 collection a few years (and which is now wait listed) openned the brand up to huge numbers of new buyers. But otoh since then perhaps they've been consolidating.
JLC is the worst kind of isolationist - just barely playing to their base and like Breguet tumbling out of commercial relevance. The Polaris simply hasnt worked (yet - perhaps it might take)
For IWC I'd throw in their massive move into ceramics (waitlisted and trading at or above retail), the not so big (43mm) big pilot and the emphasis on the top gun, now the configure your own portofino (I think) and the recent genta re-issue. Definately looking to bring in new buyers (reflected in a massive climb up the MS world cup of watches league table).
Ok Rolex - absolutely agree, what we are seeing now is the outcome of decisions made 3-5 years back. Also agree its not a simple switch - ok, lets expand now! - rather for rolex is more gradual and limited in scope. Hence I think they are a tweener.
Remember 2018/19, pre-pandemic and we were beginning to see articles "has the rolex bubble burst?" "where is rolex heading?" "is rolex to dependent on sports models"? I think thats when Rolex started making the changes we are only seeing now (actually probably started last year):
1908 into development and Cellini for the scrap heap
all new (for rolex) material - titanium planned for
off catalog watches moving away from just bedazzling and playing with enamels etc
increasing use exhibition casebacks - my guess, complications are coming next for the 1908
a bit of rationalising - airking cleaned up/milguass gone.
oh - and new factories openned up.
I enjoyed the video today and look forward to a more thoughtful and processed take than a "hot" one. I was glad to see you make the point that you make above about how these moves are planned years ahead. Thinking back to last year when Rolex was criticized for only adding colors, and it is clear that it is hard to make adjustments on the fly. Color is about the only way to do it. (I am still much pleased with my Rouen Cathedral analogy. It is accurate and esoteric at the same time. It is my idiom, I suppose.)