Hongqi "Rocket seconds hand" watch with Mao quote bracelet
The photos above and below are all from two 2009 AMCHPR photo-shoots. I can provide proof-of-life 😊 but I liked these old photos enough not to need a re-shoot. So...
At the time it was offered for sale and found by me (2009), at least one noted and very prolific Chinese collector, Zhang, mod at Watchuseek stated "This watch is rare, and I don't recall ever seen one like it.:-!" And he'd been collecting, and been around serious collectors, for ages.
Deep dive: the original thread...
In an email at the time, when I asked Zhang about it--as to whether it was fake or what--he responded "I can not say for sure it is legitimate for lack of hard evidence, but who would fake a watch like that?"
This watch came with the quotation bracelet but quotation bracelets were available as an aftermarket option during the cultural revolution period, and at the time it was commonplace for watches to be sold without the bracelet, with the buyer choosing and buying the strap (with or without quotations, leather, fabric...) as well.
The quote on the bracelet is repeated at both ends, and my understanding is that it reads translated/words to the effect of: "without a people's army, the people have nothing."
In the original thread, later, Zhang provides a photo of his collection's quotation bracelet, and examples of other aftermarket bracelets sold at the time.
I liked the top photos better, but shot these at the music store I worked at, the day the watch arrived--provided for more detail.
Keep in mind, though, that other, much newer looking, more recently seen "NOS" rocket hand Hongqi (and Kongque) are now more easily available. Mine is quite plain jane, and more well worn.
I think they're more modern than this one, and in discussions at Watchuseek that's generally the view--but we all could be wrong. We started seeing the maybe newer ones on Watchuseek about 2014.
Either way, many have terrific dials, not just better condition but far more attractive, and I think they're worth collecting just for the that, and the fun factor. So do other collectors I know--who now have them :-).
They're 100% Chinese, and if they homage anything, they homage their own product. They seem to be Liaoning through and through, and the general experience is the builds are good, original or not.
Curator: Alberta Museum of Chinese Horology in Peace River; Member: China Horologe Association; Chief Expert: China Watch Overseas Working Committee (CWOWC); Sino-Canadian Horological Cultural Affairs...
That is wild! Thanks for this post/pics @AlbertaTime
Wow… that’a second hand is wild!!
Here’s a potentially daft question - the rocket seconds hand, is that exclusively a Hongqi thing? The reason I ask is that we have seen a few people with Enicar Star Jewels (which I already have suspicions about with regards to legitimacy) on here with the hook hand and rocket pointer. Is the handset something that was made available to others, or was Enicar a brand that was particularly desirable in China at the time? Perhaps these get cannibalised a lot for the seconds hand? If I see it on anything but Hongqi I immediately think it’s suspect.
Not mine, but a picture paints a thousand words:
Very cool indeed 😎👍🏻👍🏻
Enicar (and Titoni) are both brands with a very high presence in China over the last, say, 80 years. 2nd hand watches from both brands are common. So are redials and rebuilds etc--but also, so are completely and fully legit examples.
I think they didn't leave the factory like that, with the rocket hands.
My theory--and I could be wrong--is that (similar to watches with "to serve the people" where there absolutely were legit originals that left the factories with the red inscription back in the day) the vast majority of available "TSTP" examples are redials to increase marketablity, and the vast majority of rocket second hands are rebuilds/added later.
And they're all very cool, even if not completely historically authentic.
I think the rocket second hands were originally Hongqi.
The rocket second hands may have some connection to the Hongqi named series of surface-to-air missiles (variants of the Soviet Dvina system), but that's conjecture on my part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-75_Dvina
Hongqi bring 2 or 3 times the price of similar Chinese watches from this period. It must be the second hand. I have been on the hunt for a couple of years now.
Hongqi bring 2 or 3 times the price of similar Chinese watches from this period. It must be the second hand. I have been on the hunt for a couple of years now.
Good hunting. Mind you, Hongqi were pretty good watches.
This backs up similar answers I have had from Enicar collectors. I just find it incredibly suspicious that with the two Enicars I have seen with this embellishment both are Enicar Star Jewels which I know have been widely replicated/refurbed. I was curious about Enicar prevalence in China, so thank you for your insight.