Buying a “frankenwatch”
A few weeks ago while I was bored, I decided to browse watches on eBay.
As most people do at one point, I came along these “vintage” watches that were extremely cheap. On the surface they looked like good quality, old, vintage watches.
One thing they all seemed to have in common was that they all came from India. Since this peaked my interest, I decided to do some research, and I came to understand more about these so called “frankenwatches” which seemed to be a very controversial topic. (These are also known as Mumbai special watches, since most of them come from India)
- Most of these watches are listed under the vintage watch category on eBay. One way to spot these is is by looking at the name. Another thing is that they all come from India, which is a red flag.
- These watches are essentially bits and pieces from old, broken watches that are salvaged to create a working watch. (Hence giving it its name, frankenwatch) The issue with this is, that sometimes certain parts aren’t made to work together.
- These can sometimes deceive people into thinking they are getting a genuine vintage watch for cheap, when in reality, they are getting a mix and match of aftermarket and OEM watch parts not made to work with each other.
Most people dislike these, as many watch YouTubers have made clear. However, I think they’re not so bad.
The prices:
These watches which are automatic 95% of the time, are very cheap. I was able to snag this vintage citizen for about 10 USD during an auction. There’s dozens of brands including Oris and Seiko.
Getting a fully automatic movement for such a good price is rare.
What I received:
I have to admit, that the packaging was very sketchy. Once I finally got through all of it, I was treated with the watch.
At first, it looked good, but at closer inspection, there were the usual dents and scratches you would expect on an older watch. What caught my eye the most, was that the black rim on the glass was beginning to lose colour.
This began to grow on me, as I liked how it gave the watch character.
After a few shuffles, the watch fired right up without any hesitation.
As I went to set the time, I discovered that the crown didn’t turn very well. I would have to turn it a lot for the hands to even move, and even when they did it would be very fast, and inconsistent. I was willing to look past this, since I finally set it after a few tries, and given the price point.
The leather strap was nothing special. Exactly what you’d expect. It wasn’t the best quality. Same with the springbars. In fact, one came off.
A bit later, I decided to get it opened:
On the inside, I was pleasantly surprised that the movement was very clean.
Of course, the movement had the scratches that you would expect over time. It turns out that this watch has a Miyota 8200A movement, which is pretty common for a Citizen. This does not feature hacking, but I can’t figure out if has hand winding.
As I removed the dial from the case, I noticed a few scratches on it. On many of these watches, the dials are repainted poorly. This didn’t seem to be the case with mine. (Again, to be expected)
What surprised me the most was the glass. It easily popped off with just a little push. It was not sealed or attached to the case in any way.
I ended up supergluing the glass to the case, which turned out to work very well.
After putting it back together, I also changed the spring bars, because the ones it came with felt very bad.
Should you buy one?
If you can get one for a good price, then I’d say go for it. For what you’re getting, it’s definitely worth it.
Its also a really good option if you want to start working on automatic watches, but you don’t want to risk it on a more expensive one.
Am I going to wear this much?
Probably not..
Time flies, so might was well watch it fly in style. Also, here’s an hot take; every watch can look good on a NATO.
I want to say that there is a secondary nation or two in on Mumbai special production, possibly Romania? I'm pretty sure repainted dials, sometimes creatively so, are another hallmark, as are heavily repolished cases.
Before I even read this, my first thought was "they're not that bad" and I'm glad you concur. As long as people know what they're getting into, they are usually a decent value. Authenticity is out the window, of course.
From a PDF I dug up on the net the 82xx movement should hand wind and my Lucknow Special does so.
Mine is clean inside as well. Hopefully it was dismantled, cleaned and reassembled competently, not just swirled around in some solvent and blown dry. Something they do not replace is the gaskets which is why they are described as "not water resistant". With the current batch of Seiko diver-ish watches on offer, some people are in for some disappointment if they don't read the whole description carefully.
Those Indians do seem to get a bit heavy on the circular sander when they clean up the back. Whether the back came off the same case is a matter for debate.
Ebay is littered with Miyota 82xx and compatible movements so I imagine a swap should not be too difficult for the DIY tinkerers like me who might want to keep their bling-beaters ticking for a couple of decades more.
Yes. Mine didn’t come with any gaskets either. I highly doubt they service such cheap movements, but it would surprise me if they did.
I was thinking about a swap. However I’d also like to change the case because I’m not too crazy about it.
Marks on the slots of the screw heads suggest there was some amount of dismantling done with tools there were not perfectly sized. My unit features some initials appparently in felt tip which are also present in the case back, so that suggests some amount of accountability was present, or maybe it is just a batch ID.
The people involved could have simply fitted a new movement and been mostly done with it but I suspect they are selling their labour to resurrect an otherwise near-worthless watch. I regard my unit as cheap and functional entertainment and a project for the future.
I have bought about 6 of them, mostly early on in my collecting. 4 out of the six work well and are still in my collection. The other 2 combined put me out $40 and no one will wr on them to get them running. Shame, because one is a cool little black dial Favre Leube that I really like.
I have bought about 6 of them, mostly early on in my collecting. 4 out of the six work well and are still in my collection. The other 2 combined put me out $40 and no one will wr on them to get them running. Shame, because one is a cool little black dial Favre Leube that I really like.
Nice. What I’m thinking of doing is taking some of these watches with nice dials for example, and replacing the movement or even the case.