Chrono 24 and VAT
I’m contemplating a purchase on Chrono 24 from a trade seller in Germany, for import into the UK. It is clear from the listing, and the seller has confirmed, that the price includes 19% VAT (MwSt).
Obviously, on import into the UK I would have to pay customs and 20% UK VAT on the total purchase price (due to the collective wisdom, or not, of slightly more than 50% of my fellow countrymen).
However, is it right that I should also be charged VAT in Germany too, when purchasing from a trade seller on Chrono 24? When I’ve previously purchased directly from manufacturers (eg Stowa), they have charged net of German VAT. Otherwise, you end up paying VAT on VAT.
Does anyone have experience of this?
Inclined towards German brands, the Bauhaus style and the beauty and simplicity of a deck watch.
If it’s a commercial seller they can deduct the vat, if it’s from private they can’t. The question sometimes is the willingness of small stores to do so.
If it’s a commercial seller they can deduct the vat, if it’s from private they can’t. The question sometimes is the willingness of small stores to do so.
Ah…I see. This is just such a “small store”. My request to them was responded to with a curt “the invoice will include VAT”. I’d imagine it’s too much trouble to do the paperwork!
Ah…I see. This is just such a “small store”. My request to them was responded to with a curt “the invoice will include VAT”. I’d imagine it’s too much trouble to do the paperwork!
It isn't always possible. The German tax system is many things but simple it is not. If the watch is brand new, then you can typically buy it at an export price without German VAT, if it isn't then more often than not this isn't possible. There exceptions on both ends, used watches that can be exported "properly" as well as sellers that charge VAT on new ones. If you have to pay foreign VAT, don't count on getting it back... especially not from the Germans 😉
Flight over to Germany for a cash deal with seller ?
Flight over to Germany for a cash deal with seller ?
Did this with the Netherlands a couple of years ago. Decided to fly out to collect it……
A VAT refund should be possible. You have to jump through many hoops. I don't know how it plays IRL. I would think it's in the interest of retailers of luxury goods to facilitate this, since it will help them make the sale.
https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/09-Taxes/vat-refund/906296
And the EU rules (which Germany presumably has to follow):
https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/guide-vat-refund-visitors-eu_en
It isn't always possible. The German tax system is many things but simple it is not. If the watch is brand new, then you can typically buy it at an export price without German VAT, if it isn't then more often than not this isn't possible. There exceptions on both ends, used watches that can be exported "properly" as well as sellers that charge VAT on new ones. If you have to pay foreign VAT, don't count on getting it back... especially not from the Germans 😉
Ha ha. It sounds like my bad luck to find one selling a new watch but who can’t, or won’t, get the VAT refund.
Flight over to Germany for a cash deal with seller ?
Now you’re talking. As it happens I’m going to a different part of Germany in a month or so. Maybe I should just get on a train…
A VAT refund should be possible. You have to jump through many hoops. I don't know how it plays IRL. I would think it's in the interest of retailers of luxury goods to facilitate this, since it will help them make the sale.
https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/09-Taxes/vat-refund/906296
And the EU rules (which Germany presumably has to follow):
https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/guide-vat-refund-visitors-eu_en
I’ll admit I’ve been a bit lazy by asking WC the question rather than wading through all the VAT info!
However, my basic research seemed to establish that if you buy the watch in person, then you can get the VAT back at the airport; but if you buy online, you’re completely in the retailer’s hands as to whether you can get the VAT back.
It’s a shame, because in this case it’s about £300 worth of VAT. That’s enough to put me off the purchase.
I’ll admit I’ve been a bit lazy by asking WC the question rather than wading through all the VAT info!
However, my basic research seemed to establish that if you buy the watch in person, then you can get the VAT back at the airport; but if you buy online, you’re completely in the retailer’s hands as to whether you can get the VAT back.
It’s a shame, because in this case it’s about £300 worth of VAT. That’s enough to put me off the purchase.
If you want your money back, it’s on you to do the homework and wade through the rules and figure them out. They don’t make it easy, they have no incentive to. If you read the documents I posted, even if you buy in person, you still need the assistance of the retailer to do the paperwork, and there’s nothing that says they have to. If you have a problem, they send you back to the retailer, and you’re at their mercy, the authorities will not intervene. Getting money back at the airport is also not a sure thing either.
If you want your money back, it’s on you to do the homework and wade through the rules and figure them out. They don’t make it easy, they have no incentive to. If you read the documents I posted, even if you buy in person, you still need the assistance of the retailer to do the paperwork, and there’s nothing that says they have to. If you have a problem, they send you back to the retailer, and you’re at their mercy, the authorities will not intervene. Getting money back at the airport is also not a sure thing either.
The concept of the nation state has a lot to answer for!
Thanks for the info.
The concept of the nation state has a lot to answer for!
Thanks for the info.
Brexit has a lot to answer for. I don’t see what the nation state has to do with anything. The nation state is part what makes modern society civilized, and being a member of one means you have to do you part to make it function, in part by paying taxes. And in this case, they’re taxing foreigners (which you are since you left the club), which is free money to them, so why should they make it easy for you to avoid paying? At least the EU provides some mechanism for refunding VAT, which they’re not obligated to do, and is more than can be said for the United States. If you go shopping here, there’s no possibility of getting sales tax back when you leave.
All of the above is why I stopped selling to UK customers on Ebay and buy from UK stores in general.
Brexit has a lot to answer for. I don’t see what the nation state has to do with anything. The nation state is part what makes modern society civilized, and being a member of one means you have to do you part to make it function, in part by paying taxes. And in this case, they’re taxing foreigners (which you are since you left the club), which is free money to them, so why should they make it easy for you to avoid paying? At least the EU provides some mechanism for refunding VAT, which they’re not obligated to do, and is more than can be said for the United States. If you go shopping here, there’s no possibility of getting sales tax back when you leave.
You’re right - maybe it was a little flippant. I meant the frustration in having to pay 2 lots of the same tax (albeit to different governments), just to make a purchase.
As you say, it’s a shame more countries don’t make available schemes to avoid the double taxation.
I’m always choosing United States ( where I live) due to these complicated issues. It’s the same price everywhere. You’re not going to get a super deal overseas versus here are you?
All of the above is why I stopped selling to UK customers on Ebay and buy from UK stores in general.
It’s a shame. Some people thought it was a good idea; although they are harder to find these days!
I’m always choosing United States ( where I live) due to these complicated issues. It’s the same price everywhere. You’re not going to get a super deal overseas versus here are you?
I know. I normally filter out all the other countries, and I think Chrono 24 could be better at enabling you to do this (eg on the personal feed). However, there’s some brands for which there are very few available locally.