MVMT: The Documentary - Have You Watched It?

In 2019 Teddy Baldassarre released a documentary on YouTube called MVMT: The Documentary.  I'd categorize it as "investigative journalism" but I'm using that term very loosely.

The video left a very sour taste in my mouth, but I'm curious if anyone else here has seen it and what you thought about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRkV3Vs2Ac&t 

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Generally when reading an article or viewing a video I end the session if and when I see or hear MVMT.

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im already watching it few years ago, thought is mvmt owner goal is just to make quick cash grab. just minimal effort to put a thought into the watch design and quality, just look at their chronograph for example no indices, etc. i see teddy was pretty upset about it as we can look at his expression. im agree with you, its more like investigation and confront than a documentary 😂

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Interesting. I got sent 2 movement watches and 2 sets of sunglasses from them in 2019 during my time racing sports cars.

I thought they were a cool brand but I never thought of them as a luxury watch makers.

I think this is the fault of how influencers have reacted and the content they have produced. They’ve blown this way out of proportion.

MVMT are just designing cool looking watches for cheap quality. They sell some and thats great. If they market them well, and the consumers are happy then cool. Whats the problem?

I’ll tell you,

The problem is the influencers hyping products into something they’re not. Influencers are very well versed today. 
 

Take the bigger brands scarcity for example. Rolex, AP all being sold for ridiculous prices, far more than what they’re actually worth.

You have Youtubers blaming Grey dealers for watch scarcity, yet the problem is, the youtubers are creating the craze, the hype and then they’re scratching their heads wondering what watches are out of stock and at ridiculous grey market prices.

SWATCH Moonwatch. Same story. A plastic quartz watch selling for £10k on eBay.

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In my opinion the only redeeming quality of MVMT is that they offer their products in all kinds of colors and designs. If you treat your watch truly like a fashion accessory, where the main question is how the watch looks, it may make sense to you.

If you are even the slightest bit flexible on the design, your friend Ali has something for a fraction of the price for you. 

P.S.: The documentary was the point where I started to take Teddy seriously.

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The video left a very sour taste in my mouth

Curious why you had that reaction to it. Do you have some kind of vested interest in MVMT?

I haven't watched it in a while, but I don't recall having a problem with it. I think it was produced by Teddy when he was trying to figure out where he was going in the watch industry. Now I think he's less of a watch influencer and more of a watch retailer. Most of his current videos are stuff he has for sale...

I thought Teddy was polite, gave MVMT a fair shake, and asked some tough but fair questions for a guy that's not a trained documentarian. 

At the end of the day, MVMT watches are low quality Chinese repackaged fashion watches that they made a lot of money selling to people who either don't care or don't know any better.

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Teddy Baldasarre literally walked into their hq, sat on their sofa, drank their coffee, then had the balls to say he thought they sold garbage. Like him or not, you've got to respect that

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I remember this video when it came out and I thought Teddy was actually very fair, considering the MVMT business model. I have seen some defenses of MVMT referencing people being allowed to wear what they want, MVMT offering many styles/colors, MVMT "designing" watches (rotflol), MVMT acting as a gateway watch brand, etc., and these are all good points, but they don't directly address the problem I (and I suspect most people critical of MVMT) have, which is that they are straight up adding cost without adding any value at all. Ironically and oxymoronically, they are inserting themselves exactly as the middle men they claim to be eliminating!

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MASP7GMT

The video left a very sour taste in my mouth

Curious why you had that reaction to it. Do you have some kind of vested interest in MVMT?

I haven't watched it in a while, but I don't recall having a problem with it. I think it was produced by Teddy when he was trying to figure out where he was going in the watch industry. Now I think he's less of a watch influencer and more of a watch retailer. Most of his current videos are stuff he has for sale...

I thought Teddy was polite, gave MVMT a fair shake, and asked some tough but fair questions for a guy that's not a trained documentarian. 

At the end of the day, MVMT watches are low quality Chinese repackaged fashion watches that they made a lot of money selling to people who either don't care or don't know any better.

I have no interest in MVMT and I lost a lot of respect for Teddy after watching this.

I thought Teddy was polite, gave MVMT a fair shake, and asked some tough but fair questions for a guy that's not a trained documentarian.

I didn't think he was polite at all and he absolutely didn't give them a fair shake IMO.

My problem is that MVMT has never marketed their watches as great timepieces, having their own movement, etc. If they had said those things then he had every right to call them out...but they didn't.

They've always just said that they sell inexpensive watches that look good. (that's arguable for "real watch people" but absolutely true for the general public who only buys $100 watches because they look cool)

MVMT sells very inexpensive watches and it seemed like Teddy thought they were deceiving the public because they don't manufacture their own movements.

They are what they are and everyone knows exactly what to expect when you buy a MVMT watch.  To bash them for something they're not (and never claimed to be) was just him trying to pick on them.

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Scooby

Teddy Baldasarre literally walked into their hq, sat on their sofa, drank their coffee, then had the balls to say he thought they sold garbage. Like him or not, you've got to respect that

I actually don't respect him at all for that.

They sell crappy watches.  Everyone knows they sell crappy watches.  Their products are for the general public who want a watch to match their outfit for $100.  He just called them out for making crappy watches and bashed them for not having better movements, in house designers, etc.

I think it would be a completely different story if they were lying in their advertising, but they've never said they did anything except sell fashion watches.

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Scooby

Teddy Baldasarre literally walked into their hq, sat on their sofa, drank their coffee, then had the balls to say he thought they sold garbage. Like him or not, you've got to respect that

Seems like reasonable behaviour 

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MASP7GMT

The video left a very sour taste in my mouth

Curious why you had that reaction to it. Do you have some kind of vested interest in MVMT?

I haven't watched it in a while, but I don't recall having a problem with it. I think it was produced by Teddy when he was trying to figure out where he was going in the watch industry. Now I think he's less of a watch influencer and more of a watch retailer. Most of his current videos are stuff he has for sale...

I thought Teddy was polite, gave MVMT a fair shake, and asked some tough but fair questions for a guy that's not a trained documentarian. 

At the end of the day, MVMT watches are low quality Chinese repackaged fashion watches that they made a lot of money selling to people who either don't care or don't know any better.

I have to agree that Teddy was very fair with Jake during the interview. He gave multiple opportunities to answer questions and was not antagonistic towards Jake. I would love to see Jake answer questions for Ben from @benswatchclub, as he has been just about the most critical Youtuber I have seen of MVMT (and other watch brands with similar business models), although he does give them their due credit for their superior marketing strategies.

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LumegaudAnar

I have to agree that Teddy was very fair with Jake during the interview. He gave multiple opportunities to answer questions and was not antagonistic towards Jake. I would love to see Jake answer questions for Ben from @benswatchclub, as he has been just about the most critical Youtuber I have seen of MVMT (and other watch brands with similar business models), although he does give them their due credit for their superior marketing strategies.

My problem is that the ONLY reason he did that was to pick a fight.

I want to be clear...I'm not a fan of MVMT watches.  I think they're terrible watches.  Any "watch person" would agree.  But that doesn't mean they're doing anything unethical.  They sell the watch equivalent of costume jewlery and they've never said anything otherwise.

If they claimed to be offering a superior product then I would have an issue, but they don't.  They just sell fashion watches to people who don't care about watches at all and just want an accessory to match their outfit.

I don't like MVMT watches for myself, but I don't think they're doing anything unethical.

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grailtimepieces

My problem is that the ONLY reason he did that was to pick a fight.

I want to be clear...I'm not a fan of MVMT watches.  I think they're terrible watches.  Any "watch person" would agree.  But that doesn't mean they're doing anything unethical.  They sell the watch equivalent of costume jewlery and they've never said anything otherwise.

If they claimed to be offering a superior product then I would have an issue, but they don't.  They just sell fashion watches to people who don't care about watches at all and just want an accessory to match their outfit.

I don't like MVMT watches for myself, but I don't think they're doing anything unethical.

They sell the watch equivalent of costume jewlery and they've never said anything otherwise.

I'm watching the doc again, maybe you should too. Especially the part that shows the guy that MVMT PAID to make video content where he claims MVMT has a better heritage than Rolex...

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MVMT sells fashion accessories for a fickle customer base who buy pretty and popular with no regard to quality because they discard last years fashion for whatever comes into style. They know only brand names and what is trending. Moonswatch is trending but was never designed to last very long and fits into their throw away lifestyles. Its a brave new world.

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MASP7GMT

They sell the watch equivalent of costume jewlery and they've never said anything otherwise.

I'm watching the doc again, maybe you should too. Especially the part that shows the guy that MVMT PAID to make video content where he claims MVMT has a better heritage than Rolex...

They paid him to make a video about their product.  They didn't tell him what to say.  Those were his words, they did not come from MVMT.  That's how influencer marketing works.

There's no way you just watched it and that was your take away...

After watching the influencer, Alpha M., video Teddy asked Jake "Does MVMT have better heritage than Rolex?" Then, Jake replied "No, MVMT does not."

If you missed that part it's at 21:15 in the video...

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As a  long time WIS and member of multiple forums over the years I find it curious that it took some you tube dude named Teddy to "expose" MVMT as a cheap fashion watch.

To me it was intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer that this was the case.

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Wimzard

I remember watching this when it came out and I revisited it once after. I also remember the handful of videos Teddy made before and after about the same topic and overall, I get it, we all get it - Teddy is some kind of Watch Batman protecting Gotham's wrists from overpriced, plastic watches.

But MVMT hasn't duped anyone - they didn't dupe me and I have a feeling most of the people here weren't queueing up online to get their hands in the pot. Meaning, that their addressable audience remains people who buy a watch that matches their car interior, or enjoy that the handset matches their hair color and the fact that it's a 47mm "dress" watch doesn't even register.

To balance the scales, I always like to remember that for every conversation we in the watch community have about how ridiculous MVMT watches are and how silly we might think the people who endorse them online or buy them are - they have a conversation about how ridiculous we are for spending $8,000 on a watch.

As far as Teddy goes, he saw an opportunity to make some compelling YouTube content and took it - I thought it was a little boring, but I'd rather watch that documentary a hundred times in a row than watch the new stuff with Kevin O'Leary, that stuff makes me Kevin O'Weary, amirite?

C'mon you don't want O'Leary to go on about how he is "all about the dial". And when he starts talking about technical details, it's pretty apparent Kevin's knowledge of watches is only slightly better than Producer Michael's hilarious lack of technical knowledge. These guys are all about "the flex". It's really amusing to me when they see a watch that isn't on the flex list and they become enamoured with it. Hopefully O'Leary spends more time trying to understand the Crypto hype than the Watch hype since he's invested over 10% of his clients' portfolios in that large puddle of Crypto mud.

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nytime

Not sure if my memory serves but the take away for me was Teddy trying to get MVMT to admit that they up-market cheap Chinese watches and MVMT saying everything but.

All around it was just frustrating to watch two people dance so awkwardly around a fact that everyone who knows, knows.

I thought the awkward dance was the best part of the video. The funny part is, MVMT might as well produce happy customers. In fact, I'm pretty sure about it, as they are still in business.

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MVMT is shit, trying to dupe the masses into another horological grifter scheme. Two younger guys in my office wanted to purchase them and I had to give them a bit of an education as to why they should avoid them. 

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JAS1125

MVMT is shit, trying to dupe the masses into another horological grifter scheme. Two younger guys in my office wanted to purchase them and I had to give them a bit of an education as to why they should avoid them. 

That's where I disagree...

I don't see where they tried to "dupe the masses."

Yes, their watches are bad.  No different than Fossil, but Fossil doesn't get accused of shady marketing tactics and trying to trick their customers.

If you're buying Fossil you know what you're getting.  If you're buying MVMT you know what you're getting.

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foghorn

As a  long time WIS and member of multiple forums over the years I find it curious that it took some you tube dude named Teddy to "expose" MVMT as a cheap fashion watch.

To me it was intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer that this was the case.

I completely agree.

I didn't see MVMT as trying to fool anyone...they sell a low end product that looks nice (to their customer base) that is the equivalent of costume jewelry and is priced accordingly.

It doesn't take a Dateline NBC special to "expose" them.

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grailtimepieces

That's where I disagree...

I don't see where they tried to "dupe the masses."

Yes, their watches are bad.  No different than Fossil, but Fossil doesn't get accused of shady marketing tactics and trying to trick their customers.

If you're buying Fossil you know what you're getting.  If you're buying MVMT you know what you're getting.

If you're a watch enthusiast, yes I agree.... But the vast majority of the population are not and that's where the grifting comes in

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I sort of agree with the OP in that Teddy had a tone problem. An appearance of impartiality was lacking and he came off a bit predetermined and opportunistic. But there was nobody to cheer for, as the MVMT people were evasive charlatans that deserved the grilling.

If the thing could have been edited with some more nuance and sense of fairness and actual investigation, it might have come off better. But instead it had this "Teddy reveals these creepers to be shady just like he'd already decided they were, and he does it on their dime." So again, no real heroes.

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JAS1125

If you're a watch enthusiast, yes I agree.... But the vast majority of the population are not and that's where the grifting comes in

I don't think you have to be a watch enthusiast to know that a $100 watch is not a magnificent timepiece.

I may not know much about diamonds, but I know that if I get a set of diamond earrings for $100 it's going to be really low quality.

The thing that's the most interesting to me is that I know a number of people who own MVMT watches and they all LOVE them.  They're not built for watch enthusiasts, they're made for the general population who doesn't care anything about it unless it matches their outfit.

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PoorMansRolex

I sort of agree with the OP in that Teddy had a tone problem. An appearance of impartiality was lacking and he came off a bit predetermined and opportunistic. But there was nobody to cheer for, as the MVMT people were evasive charlatans that deserved the grilling.

If the thing could have been edited with some more nuance and sense of fairness and actual investigation, it might have come off better. But instead it had this "Teddy reveals these creepers to be shady just like he'd already decided they were, and he does it on their dime." So again, no real heroes.

Well said!

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AllTheWatches

MVMT, like Dan Wellington have their place, that is taking advantage of people that don’t know any better and simply want a cheap disposable watch that looks inoffensive. Like Invicta, there is something to be said about any brand that gets folks interested in watches.

That said, they are the epitome of all that is wrong with influencer advertising. ”Cut of the middle man,” disrupting the industry,” etc. which is all lies and BS. They have been called out on several occasions for buying reviews and aligning with influencers who they allow to make outrageous claims, IE see the horrible human that is Alpha M. That is the biggest rub for most as don’t like discovering the story behind something completely inauthentic, and worse intentionally deceptive.

They have been exposed for clearly using $3 watches that they in turn sell for $100+. See old example below. At best they are glorified dropshippers. A more knowledgeable consumer can buy the same unbranded version for pennys on the dollar, and yes that goes for many things we buy. For $100, most won’t care, but even at $100 there is no value in the purchase. Unlike a Casio, who has integrated distribution, slapping a logo on someone else’s product does not make them a creator or manufacturer.

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There's no way to know that this is true...

  1. Those watches aren't $3 unless you buy 1000+ of them (typically)
  2. There is no way to know which came first...the "real" MVMT watch, or the replica MVMT watch.  You can buy fake Patek Phillippe watches on Ali, but they copy the real ones.  The same is more than likely true here.  MVMT "designs" the watches (chooses size/colors/etc.), factories in China make them, then they make more and white label them with different logos.
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grailtimepieces

There's no way to know that this is true...

  1. Those watches aren't $3 unless you buy 1000+ of them (typically)
  2. There is no way to know which came first...the "real" MVMT watch, or the replica MVMT watch.  You can buy fake Patek Phillippe watches on Ali, but they copy the real ones.  The same is more than likely true here.  MVMT "designs" the watches (chooses size/colors/etc.), factories in China make them, then they make more and white label them with different logos.

I'd assume MVMT is buying very wholesale.

I'm pretty sure some light internet detective work on archive.org could probably shed some light on who had a design for sale first, but I do agree that the existence of unbranded clone watches are not necessarily the smoking gun that many claim them to be.

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grailtimepieces

There's no way to know that this is true...

  1. Those watches aren't $3 unless you buy 1000+ of them (typically)
  2. There is no way to know which came first...the "real" MVMT watch, or the replica MVMT watch.  You can buy fake Patek Phillippe watches on Ali, but they copy the real ones.  The same is more than likely true here.  MVMT "designs" the watches (chooses size/colors/etc.), factories in China make them, then they make more and white label them with different logos.

Sadly, it is all true. The store is listed in the screen shot.  Here is another MVMT/DW style watch for almost nothing:

m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003348404531.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.6d9a4UdP4UdPFm&browser_id=91f61ba05823418db24d9003096e01a7&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=itbgt9r2rmcawibz180195f6d0dbcd1035021a9755&gclid=
 

We do know which came first, Alibaba. They have been selling them for at least a decade before MVMT existed. There is a difference between a Patek knockoff with a chinese movement and a cheap dresss watch with literally the same components as MVMT and proven to be same manufacturer. You can use the wayback machine to find the watches MVMT claims to have “designed” and see they predate MVMT/DW.

Edit, search any watch forum or Reddit and you will see this topic covered in painstaking detail right down to the factory address matching the Ali distributor.  

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The biggest Teddy Baldassarre question for me is what happened to the rap video? (I sold my kidney to buy a Pelagos).

“But honey… Box and papers.”

Update: Found a link, but the video is now private.

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PoorMansRolex

I sort of agree with the OP in that Teddy had a tone problem. An appearance of impartiality was lacking and he came off a bit predetermined and opportunistic. But there was nobody to cheer for, as the MVMT people were evasive charlatans that deserved the grilling.

If the thing could have been edited with some more nuance and sense of fairness and actual investigation, it might have come off better. But instead it had this "Teddy reveals these creepers to be shady just like he'd already decided they were, and he does it on their dime." So again, no real heroes.

I didn't get that impression at all. I thought he did a fair job at speaking and behaving courteously and professionally.

The kicker for me was the ending, when his girlfriend reacts to the documentary. A self-deprecating sense of humor like Teddy shows is refreshing to see! More importantly, it nicely puts into place how seriously (not) to take the whole controversy.