Prove me wrong: the watch I'm looking for doesn't exist.
I have been debating this with a number of friends and other enthusiasts I met online and through my watch groups. I am looking for a specific type of watch, and even if I think that my requirements shouldn't make for something too "peculiar" or hard to find, it seems indeed impossible to find such a watch.
I have a budget of EUR 3000, and all I need is five simple things:
- A reputable, well-established brand, that does not put me in danger. No microbrands. No online-only brands. It doesn't have to be an industry leader, but I would only consider watches from brands with heritage that currently sell through physical ADs. However, I would also not consider Rolex unfortunately, as I want to use this watch everyday in large cities, and I don't want to ever have to hide it, worry about it, etc. I know that I can't get a Rolex for 3000, but this is to answer preemptively to those who would suggest me to "save a bit more to get...". As I am mainly into dress watches, that's where most of my collecting efforts go, and for this type of watch the EUR 3000 budget is a fixed limit. I will take this watch hiking, to pubs, camping, partying, on road trips, to the countryside, etc. and I don't want to babysit it, nor do I want to worry about it getting noticed. Otherwise, I am aware of the existence of the Explorer I or the OP36, which would indeed be perfect choices here.
- A hard limit in size: 38mm diameter, 46mm lug-to-lug, 12mm thickness. I know that different watches wear differently and that numbers are not everything, which is why these measures are the hard limit. In fact, I would ideally have something smaller (36x44x10 would be my perfect ratio if you ask me) but I understand that different shapes turn out to give a different feeling and perceived wrist presence, hence the hard limit.
- A screw-down crown. I don't care about the specific water resistance, as watches with a screw-down crown have at least 5 or 10 bar, which is enough to serve the purpose of an everyday watch. I need the screw-down crown however, as it provides invaluable peace of mind, especially if considering the intended use I have for this watch.
- A metal bracelet. I love leather straps, but using a watch often, as many of you know, can easily become an expensive affair if you like quality straps. I foresee to use this piece 5 days a week, intensively, in a relatively warm and humid country, meaning that if I want to wear a leather strap always in excellent conditions I have to spend roughly 250 EUR a year only for leather straps (2x125 a piece for a good quality strap) + money for perlon / canvas / rubber straps for the summer. This would result in spending >10% of the cost of the watch yearly only on straps. I would rather have a metal bracelet, and wear straps occasionally. Note that I called it a "metal" bracelet as I am not necessarily set on steel, and I would be open to consider titanium, for example, or any other material that does not tarnish.
- A clear design identity. I don't want homages, replicas, but I also don't care for uninspired designs - although I understand this is subjective - such as that of the Black Bay 36, which basically mixes the Rolex Oyster case (with oddly slab-looking case sides), with the Submariner indices, the Explorer I flat/smooth bezel (as opposed as the domed/smooth of the OP) and the Tudor "snowflake" vintage hands. Again, I understand that this is subjective, so feel free to shoot me with an idea to see if I like it, if this is the only point that it's not met.
I believe that it is impossible to find such a piece, but I hope someone proves me wrong.
I will list a few of the watches I considered, and the reasons why I discarded them.
- Tudor Black Bay 36: point 5.
- Longines Spirit 37: point 3.
- Oris Big Crown Pointer Date Cervo Volante: point 4.
- Tudor 1926: point 5.
- Hamilton Khaki Aviation Pilot Pioneer Mechanical (note: NOT the Khaki Aviation Pilot Pioneer, but the Khaki Aviation Pilot Pioneer Mechanical): point 3.
- Nomos Club Sport 37: point 2.
- Sinn 556: point 5.
- Seiko King Seiko SPBx: point 3.
And obviously, for reference, some of the "ideal watches" for this task, if it wasn't for the price and/or the unwanted attention they would draw:
- Rolex Explorer I 124270
- Rolex OP36
- Audermars Piguet Royal Oak 37
- IWC Pilot's Watch Automatic 36
Lastly, for further reference, here are some of the watches I own, to get a sense of my taste, preferences, and for context:
- Cartier Tank Must Solarbeat Small (my current daily watch)
- Seiko Prospex Mini Turtle (my dive watch)
- Some cheaper watches (Orient, Casio, Citizen, etc.)
- A collection of vintage dress watches, all relatively delicate and unsuited for everyday use, with pieces from Tissot, Omega, Zenith, Longines, Vetta, etc.
- An Apple Watch
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Andrew
Living with a watch on the left wrist and a pen in the right hand⌚️🖊 between Rome, Paris, Tokyo, Amsterdam, and London. 🗣 🇮🇹🇬🇧🇯🇵🇫🇷
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Last active: 11 months ago
What about something like this?
https://shop.ballwatch.ch/en/NM1038D-L5J-BK
Maybe you’re being a bit too picky.
I would vote Sinn 556. I thought it was a bit boring at first, but the design has really grown on me, and it does have strong German minimalist design history to it.
Maybe you’re being a bit too picky.
I would vote Sinn 556. I thought it was a bit boring at first, but the design has really grown on me, and it does have strong German minimalist design history to it.
Absolutely. Yet, on the one hand, being picky is part of the hobby, and while I understand that sometimes we have to "settle", for a "utilitarian" watch of this kind some requirements are actually needed. On the other, if you think about it, all I'm asking for is a watch within that price range with a bracelet and a screw-down crown, one that is neither oversized nor a homage.
Somehow I assume you’re not into bronze? But the Oris big crown in bronze has a very comfortable bracelet, and I would wear it daily. In a hot climate you’d need to rinse it and your wrist off once in a while, but discoloring hasn’t been a constant issue for me.
Also, there are BCPDs with steel bracelets.
What about something like this?
https://shop.ballwatch.ch/en/NM1038D-L5J-BK
It doesn't have a bracelet unfortunately.
Interesting. The Slim Willard (spb315) satisfies everything except for the dimensions and was the one that I was thinking of initially.
And interesting that you find IWC a watch that attracts attention. The Mark XV on bracelet would seem to be nearly ideal and I'm certain you can find it used for sub $3K
I'll have to give it some thought.
Somehow I assume you’re not into bronze? But the Oris big crown in bronze has a very comfortable bracelet, and I would wear it daily. In a hot climate you’d need to rinse it and your wrist off once in a while, but discoloring hasn’t been a constant issue for me.
Also, there are BCPDs with steel bracelets.
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately bronze tarnishes, and the BCPD bronze models are too large anyway. The BCPD would be a perfect choice in general, with the Cervo Volante, but they only make 40mm ones with the bracelet, and smaller ones are relegated to the strap-only policy.
So the Aqua Terra's extra 0.2mm of thickness is an issue?
Interesting. The Slim Willard (spb315) satisfies everything except for the dimensions and was the one that I was thinking of initially.
And interesting that you find IWC a watch that attracts attention. The Mark XV on bracelet would seem to be nearly ideal and I'm certain you can find it used for sub $3K
I'll have to give it some thought.
I actually cut off the Mark XV due to its price, not because it attracts attention. I guess I could find it used for that price, but I should have specified I prefer buying new. This means being picky indeed, but I generally prefer buying new if the watch is in production.
So the Aqua Terra's extra 0.2mm of thickness is an issue?
I believe the AT 38 is 13.x thick, but most of all the price is the issue there.
It doesn't have a bracelet unfortunately.
I over looked that part. Ball does have a lot of bracelet options, I just did a quick search on size.
Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately bronze tarnishes, and the BCPD bronze models are too large anyway. The BCPD would be a perfect choice in general, with the Cervo Volante, but they only make 40mm ones with the bracelet, and smaller ones are relegated to the strap-only policy.
Love it! Set up 5 criteria and if all are met, add a 6th or 7th!
I think the problem I am seeing is that I don't have a good sense of what you would consider distinctive so I'll name a couple that fit the high level criteria
Oris Aquis 36.5mm x 42.5mm x 12mm - $2,200ish
https://www.oris.ch/6o/watch/aquis-date/01-733-7732-4155-07-8-21-05peb
Longines Legend Diver 36mm x 44mm x 12mm -$2400ish
https://www.longines.com/en-us/watch-the-longines-legend-diver-watch-l3-374-4-50-6
Will respond with more if I think of them
Love it! Set up 5 criteria and if all are met, add a 6th or 7th!
I'm pretty sure that every "Help me find a watch" post is like that.'
Doesn't mean that game isn't fun and doesn't mean the game doesn't serve a use. We all have preferences and stuff like this even helps flush out the hidden preferences. Once you articulate the preferences, the job becomes pretty easy.
Love it! Set up 5 criteria and if all are met, add a 6th or 7th!
I mentioned the material in my criteria, and any bronze BCPD is 40mm anyway.
But, but…Doesn’t the Longines Spirit 37mm have a screen down crown? I thought it has. At least my 40mm has.
It doesn't. Reviews say it does. But it doesn't. They changed this to make the 37mm slimmer than the 40/42.
Also worth to mention even number doesn't match perfectly as the mentioned Laco :
Seiko Alpinist
1✅
2☑ 38 x 46,2 x 12,9
3✅
4✅
5✅
He's a candidate!
Riviera 10621 Baume Mercier This watch hits your specs & you can pick it up at a local AD.
I thought it didn't have a screw-down crown? It was a strong candidate until I found out about that, I even went to try it on...
Super-Squale
DIAMETER - 38 MM
THICKNESS - 12 MM
LUG-TO-LUNG LENGTH - 45 MM
LUG WIDTH - 18 MM
SCREW-IN-CASEBACK
SCREW-IN-CROWN
It's a candidate!
I thought it didn't have a screw-down crown? It was a strong candidate until I found out about that, I even went to try it on...
Hmm, I thought it had a screw down crown. My money would be on an Omega Aqua Terra or Grand Seiko Snowflake. Both in the preowned would be a buy . Maybe the Snowflake new comes close in this soft market. I owned a Snowflake and miss it.
Life is often a compromise. Or it doesn't happen.
But for a watch, if you are constantly buying $3000 watches trying to fill the void for one at $9000, don’t buy three and just buy the one. The compromise here is compromise itself on behalf of the buyer, it’s not a forced settling due to circumstance it’s literally trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Grand Seiko SBGR253 (no screwdown?), SBGX261 (no screwdown?), SBGA285 (38.5mm) all come very close. First gen aquaterras could be interesting if used is okay. Wempe Iron Walker 36mm is an option imo.
STOWA is the answer you seek. All of their watches can be fitted with a lovely Milanaise bracelet and there are several models in your price point and specifications..
You should look at the top-of-the-line JDM watches like Casio Oceanus, Citizen Attesa, and Seiko Astron. The AR coating makes the crystal almost disappear and the craftmanship (like Zaratsu polishing) is amazing. All have titanium cases and many have titanium bracelets.
But for a watch, if you are constantly buying $3000 watches trying to fill the void for one at $9000, don’t buy three and just buy the one. The compromise here is compromise itself on behalf of the buyer, it’s not a forced settling due to circumstance it’s literally trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
I don’t know man, I thought I answered this in my post.
I don’t know man, I thought I answered this in my post.
If you impose such restrictions on your search, and pine after top-drawer pieces, the answer is simple. Your restrictions are capped off at number 5 - therefore at 5, almost nothing in the remaining pool is going to work really. There’s been some awesome suggestions, but it’s just no - 3, no - 2, maybe but it’s 5… 121 posts and your hypothesis is proven, you will not be happy, so why not save up. I don’t want to draw attention to myself? You’re not satisfied at $3000 level, it’s going to get more noticeable on your wrist from that point. As I said before, at this price point, if you want something special think outside the box.
A lot of users seem to compromise, and then moan when 3 mid-tiers still haven‘t filled the void and then struggle about how much they’ll lose from RRP. It’s a dance as old as time. You don’t have to listen to my view, I’m not bothered, but this is such a standard road that’s travelled its signposted in multiple languages and it’s written into the tour guide.
You need about three watches on rotation, every time you change your mind, one slightly annoys you, change to the other one. Much better option than sticking to one, and then being fearful of it not being perfect in one way or another.
Thank you. Not a fan of the design from pics but I will add to the list I need to try on!
You may not like the design, but it does meet the criteria you provided. So the watch that you want DOES exist. You just don't like it. 😜
Fair enough ahah you’re right
It‘s not quite checking all the boxes but it’s close (38.5 mm wide & 12.3 mm tall). But it’s under $1k & I think it’s got it’s own design identity.
https://usd.farer.com/products/exmoor