Why Do You Avoid Vintage Watches?

Check out this beauty!! I noticed that vintage watch videos don't get as many views, but I still love them with all my heart. I know @chronotriggered said to be careful with Omega, but I've been hunting a soccer timer for a long time and finally pulled the chronotrigger ๐Ÿ˜‰ https://www.watchcrunch.com/chronotriggered/posts/the-perils-of-vintage-94-or-so-you-want-to-buy-a-vintage-watch-the-vintage-guide-none-of-you-asked-for-17932 Despite the clean appearance, the movement wasn't working right and the bracelet couldn't be adjusted, but after a month of work, it's finally on the wrist and doling out the smiles. I'm thinking of turning the above thread into a video and using my buying experience with this watch as an example. Tell me about why you are afraid of vintage.
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In one word: Provenance. Tracing a vintage watch origin to ensure it's original and not the result of gross cannibalization is beyond my expertise.ย 

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Catskinner

In one word: Provenance. Tracing a vintage watch origin to ensure it's original and not the result of gross cannibalization is beyond my expertise.ย 

Yeah the whole issue with Franken watches is scary. Waiting for the experts to enter the chat and tell me my watch looks all wrong ๐Ÿ˜…

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I'm on with @Catskinner; my knowledge is too limited to reliably shop vintage.ย 

Maybe later on.ย 

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UnholiestJedi

I'm on with @Catskinner; my knowledge is too limited to reliably shop vintage.ย 

Maybe later on.ย 

If I tried to channel 'triggered's knowledge into a video, sort of a "vintage buying guide", would that be helpful to people?

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Max

If I tried to channel 'triggered's knowledge into a video, sort of a "vintage buying guide", would that be helpful to people?

I would welcome it. Most people say "do your homework" without explaining WHAT the homework is that needs to be done.ย 

I got a pretty good understanding from 'triggered's post, but a vid would certainly be helpful and possibly reach further into the community.ย 

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Too many horror stories. ย I still haven't recovered from watching this 2 decades ago...

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How often do you need to send in a vintage watch for maintenance anyways? and is there an average cost?

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So far I've only bought watches that are fairly cheap and I like the look of. ย I figure as long as I stay away from higher-end stuff, the issue or authenticity isn't as important. ย That said, I try to make sure I'm getting what the ad says.

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ortolan

How often do you need to send in a vintage watch for maintenance anyways? and is there an average cost?

I think it's usually ok to service once the watch starts to not keep time will. Costs vary depending on location, type of movement, and your relationship with the watchmaker. But usually a few hundred

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How delicate are vintage watches and which ones can be worn regularly? ย I think a video on common questions about vintage watches would be great. ย I'm just beginning to explore getting a watch from my birth year. ย  I'm realizing that buying vintage does not have to be expensive, but maintaining vintage can put a dent in your wallet. ย 

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As @Catskinner and @UnholiestJedi have mentioned, the danger of Frankenwatches is too much of an issue to make the juice worth the squeeze for me. It seems that the vintage collector community insists on all parts being totally original, so if anything has ever been done to a watch over its lifetime that impacts its originality, it can have a HUGE impact to the value of the watch.

I had picked up this vintage Wakmann chrono from a member of our local watch enthusiast community. I really liked the look of the watch, and assumed that I could fully trust the seller, given his reputation and knowledge. After purchasing the watch, I decided to try to find out more about the specific model, and posed some questions on a different forum. It was quickly pointed out to me that this was a "re-dial", and as such was worth less than half of what it would have been if it had the original dial (which is closer to what I paid). ย After I was schooled a bit on the forum, it became obvious to me that this was a re-dial, and I assume that the seller may have known that as well, given his ย focus on vintage pieces. In any event, that experience soured me on vintage, but it was a teachable moment, so I don't regret the purchase.

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I've been on the hunt for a 1972 Omega 198.0022 with a blue dial for a little while now but every example I find online I nitpick every detail about it and eventually talk myself out of buying it. I'm like goldilocks with her porridge but instead of finding the one thats "just right" I decide I should go to someone elses house and try their porridge instead.ย 

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I promised myself I'd never buy another watch with a "pin and collar" bracelet. So I'm going to break that promise when I eventually get into vintage.ย 

Right now I'm resisting the urge to dive in with a vintage Seiko Willard 6105.

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E: they're just too small. I'd love to have a Polerouter, but it would just look dainty on me.

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Max

I think it's usually ok to service once the watch starts to not keep time will. Costs vary depending on location, type of movement, and your relationship with the watchmaker. But usually a few hundred

At leastโ€ฆ factor in complication(s), movement type (pin-pallet or not), part availability... itโ€™s a sliding scale unfortunately based upon desirability.ย 

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@Aurelian There is an exception where the paint seems to crawl up the hour markers...because it always has been this way. Embossed dials. On many cheaper watches - Timex, Westclox, and so on - the raised markers were not actually applied. In these cases, the whole dial was stamped - like a bracteate. Cheaper and easier to make than cutting out and finishing each and every index. And since there's no sharp edge between the background and the hour marker in such dials... Then again, some brands used both techniques, and in case of bog-standard Swiss no-name watches in plated cases and with a basic-but-decent kind of generic movement inside, it's often hard to tell if it's a redial that's been done without removing the applied hour markers, or is it an embossed one. Though it's not that uncommon to find such stamped dials that were repainted. Go figure...ย 

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ChronoGuy

Totally agree.

One thing I have done with smaller watches...if they can accommodate it, is put them on a bund strap. This makes them wear larger on the wrist and not look silly.

Here are some vintage examples...all 36mm or under (the Rolex is 28mm)...

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Here are some modern examples...

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Good call. Those bullheads look exceptionally tiny in real life without a strap. I recall the episode of Just One More Watch where Jody - who is normally quite comfortable with sub 40mm watches - said he just laughed at how small it was when he got the reissue bullhead, and wished that for once the reissue wasn't so true to the original.

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MrBloke

@Aurelian There is an exception where the paint seems to crawl up the hour markers...because it always has been this way. Embossed dials. On many cheaper watches - Timex, Westclox, and so on - the raised markers were not actually applied. In these cases, the whole dial was stamped - like a bracteate. Cheaper and easier to make than cutting out and finishing each and every index. And since there's no sharp edge between the background and the hour marker in such dials... Then again, some brands used both techniques, and in case of bog-standard Swiss no-name watches in plated cases and with a basic-but-decent kind of generic movement inside, it's often hard to tell if it's a redial that's been done without removing the applied hour markers, or is it an embossed one. Though it's not that uncommon to find such stamped dials that were repainted. Go figure...ย 

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This is just such an example of such a pressed dial. They were only around for a decade or so. You can see them on Vantage and Sovereign watches and many low budget brands from about the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties.

I am still of the opinion (based only on a photograph) that the dial of the Westclox was repainted. The pressed dials like the Sellita above have the indices rise out of the dial like an iceberg. On the Westclox the area near the intersection of the dial and indices shows a different sort of surface tension, one more consistent with later paint (like the colorful subcontinent redials). Westclox produced better watches for a brief time in the late sixties, some with 21 jewels. I think that watch was one of their premium models.

Now if I were able to look at it with a loupe or take it apart and examine the dial I might conclude that it was a pressed or stamped dial. ย I thought of putting that caveat into the original comment, but it was getting lengthy as it was.

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complication

A question I've honestly been asked, and seen asked of others, 100 times before. And the answer is quite simple - in that scenario, you'd 'make do'. You'd wear what's available. It wouldn't look good/look in proportion with your body, but it'd do.ย 

There's a b&w image of some WW2 soldiers that pops up on YouTube videos from time to time to illustrate historical watch size with a big beefy (almost fat) guy with this tiny little watch on his wrist. Some people think it looks awesome. I think it looks ridiculous.ย 

It's the same as if you were morbidly obese in the 1940s - a rare thing, but it still happened - things like theatre or sports venue seating wouldn't have been for you, either, as you weren't who it was built for. But you'd 'make do' in that instance, too.

The main factor for me is proportion. And this is something everyone should be able to understand. If a 38mm watch looks a certain way on a 6.5" wrist and the person with that wrist looks down and thinks, "That looks perfect..." then what the heck do they think it looks like on an 8" wrist? Surely they would comprehend that it doesn't look the same? Surely they would twig to the fact that if it looks 'perfect' on their wrist, then it's not going to look 'perfect' on a significantly larger wrist? It's pretty simple. It's all about proportion.

In watch collecting there's this wild movement from some folk with small, or even tiny, wrists that people with much larger wrists should wear the same size watches they do. It's almost like an obsession. I find it quite weird and off-putting especially when watches look radically different on different wrists. To say someone with larger wrists should have a small watch "because it looks great on my wrist" always seems bizarre to me. It's like some guy who's 5'5" saying everyone should drive a Mazda MX-5 because he fits into it so well. I could go on, but I think my point of view is made. Cheers.

I mean, Iโ€™m sorry if you are tired of the question, but I have just over 7 1/2โ€ wrists, tattooed arms, and I wear 28-30mm comfortably so it was more curiosity. I also wear up to 45mm+. I think they all look fine to me, but itโ€™s preference. I have also never said that you should all wear what I wear - in fact I do recall mentioning size very early on and recommending that if you canโ€™t do <36mm stay away from vintage. Each to their own.

I have no shame wearing these, I quite like the look of a smaller watch on a big wrist, its classic:

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So I just found this Vintage little gem at an Estate sale on Sunday. It was in a box with a bunch of broken watches. One spring bar on the band was missing and new battery. Battery killed my purchase price of 1.50 for the watch. Now I'm into it for 11.50! ย My 1st Hamilton !

But these are the kind of buys that keep me canvasing garage & estate sales.ย 

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Porthole

I mean, Iโ€™m sorry if you are tired of the question, but I have just over 7 1/2โ€ wrists, tattooed arms, and I wear 28-30mm comfortably so it was more curiosity. I also wear up to 45mm+. I think they all look fine to me, but itโ€™s preference. I have also never said that you should all wear what I wear - in fact I do recall mentioning size very early on and recommending that if you canโ€™t do <36mm stay away from vintage. Each to their own.

I have no shame wearing these, I quite like the look of a smaller watch on a big wrist, its classic:

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I think that's great; if you're comfortable with the look and feel, that's all that matters. The same for your tatts, the same for your clothes, the same for anything personal to you. Someone else might think, 'That's not for me...' but neither side is right. It's all personal preference. And again, to answer the heart of your question, for me it's all proportional. I don't sit here and think, "I must have a 42mm watch because bigger is better baby! Yeah!" I sit here and think, "What's going to feel right? What's going to look right - to me - when I see my full body in a mirror and notice that thing down on my wrist?" And my brain just has a feeling for what seems in proportion and what doesn't. But again, that's just how I come at it. Mileage will vary!

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Iโ€™m not sure why people are worried about maintenance. A vintage watch serviced with modern lubricants is just as reliable as a modern watch, sometimes moreso. Iโ€™ve got a pair of vintage Seikos (โ€˜68 DX SeaLion M330 & โ€™81 5 w/ 6309) that are just as accurate as any of my modern watches and even more accurate than a couple. Even better, I think my vintage watches are waaay more comfortable than the modern stuff. 36mm, very light and thin (even the autos)? yes ย please

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My worry re vintage is that all the seals and designs will never match todays and I'd kill it with shock, water, sweat, .. or all 3 of those at once.

The vintage I've got are family watches and pocketwatches and I dare not actually wear them. Nice to look at and think about family though.

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Fieldwalker

My worry re vintage is that all the seals and designs will never match todays and I'd kill it with shock, water, sweat, .. or all 3 of those at once.

The vintage I've got are family watches and pocketwatches and I dare not actually wear them. Nice to look at and think about family though.

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Iโ€™d be worried if you tried to run, swim or dive with a vintage watch. Iโ€™d wager that on a normal, uneventful, day you could probably wear them without issue. I accidentally waterboarded the Everite when I opened the garage this morning, itโ€™s fine.

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I think vintage watches are always looking great. So many watches to discover and the possibility to discover some real rare beautys. But I have not much knowledge about vintage watches, so I'm always worried of buying fakes, broken watches that cost a lot to repair or buying way to expensive. It's sometimes really hard to estimate a fair price. So I prefer the vintage watches under 150 $. There is a lot to discover and some real great watches. And I think that it needs some time if you're used wearing more modern watches.ย 

For example: I wanted to try a rectangular watch but wasn't sure wether I like it so I didn't want to spend much many. Found a vintage Stowa and got it for 60 Bucks. Wasn't sure in the beginning and tried some different straps but it just didn't clicked. Felt a little bit old fashioned and I just couldn't really appreciate wearing this watch. After a while oft not wearing it I changed straps again and then felt in love with this watch. With the new strap I spend about 80 bucks for great watch that I'm now really enjoying. But it needed some time to get there. If I had bought an expensive vintage watch I probably would have tried to sell it quickly and didn't take the time I needed to appreciate this watch.ย 

So I think it's a combination of fear of making a bad deal or buying a broken watch and the unexperience of wearing vintage watches. But I think there is still another component. Even after my great experience I still wouldn't buy an expensive vintage watch (with real vintage I mean before 1990). Can't really tell why but still feeling uncomfortable. ย 

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I'm particular with vintage watches out of concerns with maintaining the movement and originality. That's why I've gone after old quartz Seikos - they're generally very reliable (as long as there is no water ingress or battery leaks) and they aren't desirable enough for people to modify them beyond polishing the cases.ย 

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I just like my things new and shiny and I donโ€™t like that other people have marked up the watchcase and bracelet. Iโ€™ll never be into vintage unless itโ€™s a mint example. NOS โ€œnew old stockโ€œonly for me. I know-I have issues.ย 

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I don't avoid vintage. I love it, and have quite a bit of vintage watches. However, I am not looking to buy more. In fact, I'm doing trades to each time exchange two I don't wear for one that I will.ย 

Thing is, keeping them all serviced is a menace. I already have some that can't be sorted out, unless I find donor movements for them. And that's far from easy. Even if I'd buy a job lot donor movement, I can't be sure that the parts I need will be in decent condition. Since we're talking hairspring/balance complete, these often are done for in de-cased donor movements. And even if I'd find donor movements with the required parts salvageable, I'm not a watchmaker and can't replace them myself. A watchmaker also won't replace them without doing a full service on it, and service rates have gone up.

So, even though I love vintage, I'll stick to trades and downsizing the collection to have less watches, but ones that I'll enjoy more. Buying has turned into a no-no for me.

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Actually, thanks to this post and @robwei Ive been checking out a bunch of vintage watches and I'm probably gonna get a few! Thank you both for that! Its kind of like a treasure hunt to find the best watch at the best price and your giving life to a watch could have been thrown away. ย Im looking at older seamasters, Cartier Tanks for my wife and hamliltons. The best thing is that they are all within my price range. ย I look at Chrono24, any sites or shops you specifically look at?