What the hell is Smiths?

Interesting topic, as far as I heard it is exactly what you have written, a small company that produces an homage to an 1016. They are owner of the name Smith brand name but not connected to the brand that maybe was first together with Rolex on the Everest. 

Everything what you read an see, the quality seems appropriate for the price. However I cannot understand the people that prefer it over an Explorer because of the heritage. The hints are stronger that the watch from the 50s Smith company was on the wrist of Hillary while the Explorer was in his pocket. But this new company has no connection to the original company, this watch has no heritage and additionally, this design was not the first on the Everest, it was a white dial Smith and/or a white dial OP.

It is not an homage to the old Smith; it is an homage to Rolex' marketing genius, the 1016!

I think the people who "prefer it to an Explorer" are just deluding themselves. I tried to not like this watch for the confusing heritage play... But I do, it's actually good 🤦‍♂️

By "no connection to the original Smiths company" do you mean like he's not the great grandson of the founder?  🤣

I mean there is not constant existence. Smith stopped to exist in the 70s (I think) and someone else bought the name afterwards and founded the company/brand of today, same as with H Moser & Cie. While at Lange it is really a relative  that founded the company again (so really a discussion what their status is). Glashütte Original has a very inconsistent history but it was always the same company. The todays company is the legal successor of the East German GUB which is the legal successor of multiple Glashütte brands (including A. Lange & Söhne).

And sure the Explorer design is the best. I love my Rolesor Explorer, but for me the watch of the Everest is the OP and with that my OP 39 white is a better successor ;)

What?  They've stopped making music, so they're making watches now?  WTF???

Please - old Smiths needs to be considered as a separate entity to the Timefactors. It’s not a throwaway subject either, Smiths has a very rich history.

I'm a fan.

Doesn't say Rolex on the dial - that's a good thing.  😊

But they did change their logo to a crown 👑 😬

While the brand Smiths has serious watch making history, the company Timefactors is a company that markets military inspired timepieces with many different brands.  I would categorize them as a watch brand reseller.  BTW, I love to own their Smiths-military-prs-29 & Smiths-military-prs-29am-1 offerings!

How do you like your Smiths watches? 

”…I was looking for a Smiths, then I found a Smiths

And Heaven knows I’m miserable now…” 😂

The old names are not what they used to be. A lot of people still thing Bulova is still Swiss and not just another Citizen. Orient is just another Seiko. And Omega is just another swatch....well maybe in just one case. ;)

If I were obsessed with 1016, I would definitely consider getting this watch considering its close resemblance, but the brand on the dial doesn't mean much to me. Not like I have a vendetta or anything against them, but it has the same meaning to me as a Pagani Design, or San Martin. Just a brand making watches. 

There are a lot of resurrected dead brands with no real connection to their original makers (beyond their name). 

Still, the history of the unconnected brand is interesting and shines a light (again) on the incredible marketing prowess of Rolex who even back then was ready with an ad in the can to run in the London Times as soon as the Everest summit was achieved (regardless of what watch was worn which no one knew as that detail was not important enough to wire back for the first newspaper story).  Smiths was too late to the punch here and Rolex kept pressing its marketing by retaining (paying) Hillary and the other relevant pioneers as brand ambassadors soon thereafter.

No criticism is intended. Rolex marketing is the best in class and its watches are superb (and I want a white dialed Explorer). While I think that the Smiths was worn by Hillary and likely Norgay that fateful day, it really doesn't matter as both brands were provided and likely carried by all the expeditions of the time (and, as pointed out by Max, there is no real historical connection between the new Smiths and the original).

Sorry for the rambling post. I got into watches for the historical connection (to own a piece of history even if the watch is newly made and marketed to the hilt like my favorite Speedy).  

I agree that though the Smiths name is distant to the watch in question, it nevertheless is interesting and better than "San Martin" which means nothing

I don't have any yet.  Buying a sold out Smiths watch can be tricky as Timefactors open their online stores periodically and then it's a mad rush to try to place the order before they run out of inventory.

Let’s hope that it is a Hurricane and not a hibiscus tea.

Let’s hope - there is a lot riding on this now. 

So they license the use of a Seiko part in their movements, what’s your point? That’s like saying everyone who used Incabloc shock systems fell under Incabloc SA or everyone who licensed Parashock fell under Citizen. Seiko has nothing to do with Orient’s in-house movement design which is especially apparent as Seiko has nothing remotely comparable to Orient’s movements in quality and accuracy at that price point

The drink is in focus and the watches are not. Hurricane is the odds-on favorite over hibiscus tea.

Exactly - the Smiths could be the drink, and then we need to know how tart it is to assume whether it’s long, or an aperitif. Dammit Jim! We need answers!

It is not warm enough in the Pacific Northwest for a Campari (wrong glass too).

I mean, I’ve drunk wine out of a pint glass, if it’s been a bad day a vessel is just a vessel.

Eddie (Timefactors) makes some great pieces. He also encourages the (forum) public to offer design ideas for new product

The origin Smiths Watch Company is a valued heritage name. They built watches in the UK until the 1980s. They had two factories. One in Gloucestershire and one in Wales. The watches were sold under several model names. The Empire range was the cheaper model, which were produced in Wales. 

Cheltenham-made These are the ones you really want, as they have the highest grade movements and more effort in the dials and cases. The dials say Smiths, Smiths De Luxe, Smiths Everest, Smiths National, Smiths Astral, Smiths Imperial or some later ones say just Astral. In a few cases they are dialled Benson and some nice 18 jewel movements were made for Garrard.

Welsh-made These are from the Anglo-Celtic watch company in Ystradgynlais. Dials say Smiths Empire or Made in Great Britain. Fun, cheap, some eye-catching dials – but the movements were very basic and are impossible to service. Not worth your time.

FYI - Despite the claims by Rolex, the watch that was taken to the top of Everest was the Smiths Expedition, worn by Sir Edmond Hillary (his own watch). The Rolex Explorer was worn by Sherpa Tenzing and was only loaned to him. 

One of the collectable models is the Astral. These are becoming very collectable and I have one in great condition for sale, if anyone is interested please feel free to contact me. 

The model that Hillary wore on his summiting of Everest was a pre-cursor to the Smiths Deluxe A409 (shown below)

I would class Timefactors definitely as a microbrand but as Eddie is using the Smiths name, Smiths themselves, and also Precista, would be classed as a "phoenix brand", in the veins of Nivada Grenchen, Ollech & Wajs and others, though Eddie has sold watches under other names, the most interesting one being the Dreadnought line of dive watches (including the Dreadnought Voyager GMT and the mid-size Baby Dreadnought), named after the British nuclear submarine Dreadnought S101 from the 1960s, which itself is named after the HMS Dreadnought from 1906.

Here's the link to the Dreadnought section of the Timefactors website if you are interested: https://www.timefactors.com/collections/dreadnought

Timefactors uses the "Smiths" acquired brand to grab some cash making us to fool ourselves into the thin as air connection with the original Great Britain made legendary watches. 

I've yet to see evidence of Eddie trying to "fool" people into buying his watches just to make a quick buck by using the Smiths brand. If anything, he is more honest. There is no "emotional" story about how "we are making a comeback" or anything that makes it seem like HE is the Smiths company and how it's all connected to the original heritage company. His company is Timefactors and he produces Smiths-branded watches and to the surprise of no one, the 1016 homage watches happen to be his hottest-selling items. The whole website from which you purchase the watches is branded Timefactors and Smiths is just one of several brands listed there, how could you possibly have "fell for it"??

Well, this is just my view and as I state, a biased one. This is no evidence, just an opinion of a nobody like me 😉. And I confess have an important bias, but also knowledge, as I got the Everest and the Expedition. After the despicable behavior of Eddie I sold them both with no regret. 

https://youtu.be/UfN4TLjsXPg

I have checked many design copies of the Rolex Explorer and also many true homages along the way.

The fact is that this PRS-25 Everest is not an homage in the strict meaning of the word, but a direct design copy of the Rolex Explorer 1016, with the name Smiths in it. Should the name on the dial be Timefactors or another brand without any connection with the Everest conquest, that would be more honest in my humble opinion. See, the Expedition version is a more honest approach to the Smiths brand and all the Everest conquest if you ask me.

One of the possible interpretations, mine for instance, is that the Smiths brand is being used to try to add some credibility to the watch and connection to the true Rolex Explorer. Because if having many brands that he has bought, why use the Smiths one for precisely a design copy of the Rolex Explorer 1016? What was the purpose? Why not use "Timefactors" or "Man Partin" or any other name? 

He might not want to fool people. That is true, but allow me to doubt it. But some people think their "Everest" si somehow more legitimate than, let's say, the San Martin. Nope, it is not.

But now, to be honest, I don't care about legitimacy in direct design copies any more, I kind of like them to exist, but better for all of us to know what we are buying and not to fool ourselves into believing that by buying a Smiths we have something more authentic than the San Martin, because that is simply not the way it is.

I only just came across this thread, but I'll add my twopence worth...

I've owned 6 Timefactors watches altogether and every one of them has been worth every penny I paid. They were all really well made, good specs, high quality and affordable. I've heard the horror stories about Eddie's bedside manner, but can't really comment because there's never been an issue with any I've bought. I also know he gets a lot of stick for the way the website is run. He only opens for a few minutes at a time, and sells out immediately. Again, all I can say here is that I have always got what I wanted, when I wanted it - but then, I'm in the UK so don't have to wait up all night. Personally, I think the people who complain about how the operation is run are missing the point. Eddie is a retired, one-man show whose watches sell out straight away. It's entirely up to him how he runs things, and he is happy as they are.

Nowhere on his site is he trying to hoodwink anyone about the homages he produces. In fact, he goes out of his way to detail inspiration. My take is that he bought the Smiths name to resurrect a part of national history out of nostalgia - it was never an attempt to pass stuff off as something it isn't. I don't know anyone whose ultimate grail is a 1960's Smith Astral...

In addition, as well as producing very well-put-together homages, he also engages the general public (through his Forum) asking them what they would like to see, running detailed designs past them and then developing designs through threads which then incorporate his readership's ideas. This strikes me as being an almost perfect example of a watch-enthusiast successfully getting to engage his hobby during his retirement and drawing in loads of other enthusiasts to the process. Sure, he might be a grumpy older dude, but I'm an older dude and I can get grumpy too.

Other things he does right include always producing a complete specs sheet showing every metric you could possibly desire (including thickness!!!) - something no one else seems to do, and running charity auctions continually on his forum.

But for me, the very best thing he does, is produce some amazing original designs - and this is where he started. His original Dreadnought model arguably kickstarted the whole microbrand shebang, and for that I'll be eternally grateful. Here's a couple of articles about that very watch:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/remembering-fricker-the-watchmaker-that-drove-the-internet-crazy

https://twobrokewatchsnobs.com/the-baby-dreadnought-prs-52-the-toughest-tool-watch-youd-never-heard-of/

We need more Timefactors out there...

Smiths Group PLC is still a large diversified engineering group in the UK, market cap about £6bn. It started out as a clockmaker/jeweller, made clocks, pocket watches, then increasingly scientific instruments, and you'll find Smiths instruments speedos and tachymeters etc on the dashboard of just about every iconic British car you can think of, Jag E types, Astons, Rolls Royce, Bentley etc, as well as every day cars, like the Mini as well as inside all the British planes of WW2 etc.

It was the instrument part of the business that really made money and still does to this day. They ran the watchmaking division separately, it's heyday being from the 50's into the mid 60's and by the time of the quartz crisis it was no longer making really profitable, and was becoming very secondary to the wider Smiths group, so it was shut down - that was in the mid 70's I think. By the end they had shifted to very cheap movements, and had lost their cachet as being the standard gold watch to be given to retiring employees as a reward for "good service". The rights to the "Smiths" name in connection with wristwatches were sold/leased to Timefactors (though it's not clear if they have an absolute right to it, or just a licence to use it for a limited period, I would suspect it's closer to the latter really, given that Smiths is still an important brand).