I wanted to like this watch

Do you ever meet a watch that looks so good, you don't even care about the specs? The new superocean takes the classic recipe that's made Tudor successful of vintage inspired design with strong build quality at half Rolex retail. But for the life of me, I can not understand Breitling's movement choice 馃

You nailed it on the movement vs price. The one minute chronograph design of the original seems mostly useless though and I鈥檓 glad they got rid of it.

I love the design and hope the movement catches up and that they refine the model in future iterations.

It takes a lot to get you to give a negative review.

While I don't disagree with anything you said; I do have something to add. It is no secret I have very little love for the new Superocean; however, my love for Breitling remains long and deep.

Breitling was an early adopter of Ebauches, and as such they focused more on design and finishing; the stuff the customer could see and touch. This has been very successful for the brand, they use good ETA movements along with superb design and finishing.

There is a good off the shelf 60 minute totalizer movement available; Breitling had previously used this movement in their Hercules Pilot watches of the 2000's. But I think the reason it was ruled out on the new Superocean has more to do with waterproofing. It is very difficult and expensive to produce pushers that can be activated underwater. Avoiding the issue altogether, in this case that was the path they selected.

Coincidentally, Tag Heuer used this same movement with waterproof pushers on the Aquagraph models of the 2000's. Despite a small group of collector interest, the watch was not that successful and was swiftly and quietly discontinued.

The Kelly Slater LE is the first Breitling I bought. Beautiful watch. When my wife saw it she said, 'that watch looks like it was made for you'. This isn't a watch you buy if it's your only watch, cause you wouldn't get it over, say, an Omega Seamaster 300M; however, if you have a few watches like I do (and many enthusiasts do) then it's a nice one to add. I have no regrets. I love mine.

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I believe this has a Sellita movement, not ETA. It has 26 jewels, not 25. It's also regulated to be COSC certified.

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Per your own words...

You can come roast me on Watchcrunch.com

Okay! I'm here to oblige!

The new Superocean is one of the most beautiful watches to have been released in 2022. The fact that it uses a "workhorse" movement is a feature, not a bug!

I'm a broken record, but I'll say it again:

  • I would take an ETA or Sellita or Seiko or Miyota movement over an "in-house" 8 days a week

  • "Workhorse movements" have shown their reliability and quality in real-world, empirical, day-to-day use and abuse, for decades on end now

  • Parts are plentiful, any competent watch-maker is equipped to work on them, it's all relatively cheap to maintain, etc., etc.

  • The only reason that manufacturers are touting "in-house" movements is because the Swatch Group bought up all the movement manufacturers coming out of the quartz crisis, and then wanted to put all their competitors out of business by no longer supplying them with ETA movements, etc. 聽Unfortunately, the Swiss government stepped in to prevent free commerce. 聽As a result, all these manufacturers had to move in-house, and their marketing tells you that in-house is better

  • But, if in-house is better, why do in-house movements cost so much more? 聽As a business guy, my hypothesis is this: 聽"I gotta charge you a ton upfront, to cover all the downstream warranty costs I gotta eat, when the movement fails you!"

When it comes to complex mechanical components, to make something that will last 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and beyond, requires MASSIVE fixed cost R&D investment. 聽When that happens, you end up with "natural monopolies." 聽

Here are some other examples of natural monopolies:

  • Microsoft Windows

  • Shimano bicycle drive trains

  • ZF8 auto transmissions

  • Google search

What these all have in common is massive fixed cost R&D investment, that is then amortized over large numbers of units / transactions. 聽

When you try to create "in-house" alternatives, you end up utter crap - even if you have extremely deep pockets. 聽Back in the day, when IBM was a giant, they tried to come up with an alternative to Microsoft's OS, and created OS/2. 聽Utter crap and it died an ignominious death. 聽

Sram is trying to compete with Shimano, but their drive trains really only sell to a niche market.

Check out the Nissan CVT transmission. 聽If you Google it, the entire first page of results will link to class action lawsuits. 聽Arguably, CVT is why Nissan is considered such a lemon Japanese auto brand!

But, then again, admittedly, I haven't actually gone out and purchased the watch. So, I'm just another Internet keyboard warrior.

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Finally, new creator, Joshua...

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HotWatchChick69
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Per your own words...

You can come roast me on Watchcrunch.com

Okay! I'm here to oblige!

The new Superocean is one of the most beautiful watches to have been released in 2022. The fact that it uses a "workhorse" movement is a feature, not a bug!

I'm a broken record, but I'll say it again:

  • I would take an ETA or Sellita or Seiko or Miyota movement over an "in-house" 8 days a week

  • "Workhorse movements" have shown their reliability and quality in real-world, empirical, day-to-day use and abuse, for decades on end now

  • Parts are plentiful, any competent watch-maker is equipped to work on them, it's all relatively cheap to maintain, etc., etc.

  • The only reason that manufacturers are touting "in-house" movements is because the Swatch Group bought up all the movement manufacturers coming out of the quartz crisis, and then wanted to put all their competitors out of business by no longer supplying them with ETA movements, etc. 聽Unfortunately, the Swiss government stepped in to prevent free commerce. 聽As a result, all these manufacturers had to move in-house, and their marketing tells you that in-house is better

  • But, if in-house is better, why do in-house movements cost so much more? 聽As a business guy, my hypothesis is this: 聽"I gotta charge you a ton upfront, to cover all the downstream warranty costs I gotta eat, when the movement fails you!"

When it comes to complex mechanical components, to make something that will last 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and beyond, requires MASSIVE fixed cost R&D investment. 聽When that happens, you end up with "natural monopolies." 聽

Here are some other examples of natural monopolies:

  • Microsoft Windows

  • Shimano bicycle drive trains

  • ZF8 auto transmissions

  • Google search

What these all have in common is massive fixed cost R&D investment, that is then amortized over large numbers of units / transactions. 聽

When you try to create "in-house" alternatives, you end up utter crap - even if you have extremely deep pockets. 聽Back in the day, when IBM was a giant, they tried to come up with an alternative to Microsoft's OS, and created OS/2. 聽Utter crap and it died an ignominious death. 聽

Sram is trying to compete with Shimano, but their drive trains really only sell to a niche market.

Check out the Nissan CVT transmission. 聽If you Google it, the entire first page of results will link to class action lawsuits. 聽Arguably, CVT is why Nissan is considered such a lemon Japanese auto brand!

But, then again, admittedly, I haven't actually gone out and purchased the watch. So, I'm just another Internet keyboard warrior.

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Finally, new creator, Joshua...

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Firstly, I have only one reason for not liking the new superocean....the sledgehammer minute hand! Wish it was a bit more discrete.

But to your point, if Breitling has chosen to go for a workhorse movement, why is it priced like an in-house? They have no R&D or future warranty to makeup for here. This is the similar criticism Hoblot gets (plus many thinking they're ugly watches). If they were priced differently I think they would get better reviews is all I'm saying.

tonmed

Firstly, I have only one reason for not liking the new superocean....the sledgehammer minute hand! Wish it was a bit more discrete.

But to your point, if Breitling has chosen to go for a workhorse movement, why is it priced like an in-house? They have no R&D or future warranty to makeup for here. This is the similar criticism Hoblot gets (plus many thinking they're ugly watches). If they were priced differently I think they would get better reviews is all I'm saying.

You make a good point about the pricing. If I had to guess, I would say the following:

  • Good design costs a lot of money

  • Breitling have hired in lots of top-tier design talent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVvh6QrjgHU

  • Design is a fixed-cost and typically gets lumped under R&D, much the same way that movement design would fall under R&D - you have to amortize those costs over every unit sold

  • Although non-creative types, like myself, often poo-pooh the intangible stuff like art and design, bad design is like what Justice Stewart Potter said of pornography, "I know it when I see it"

Speaking of bad design / pornography...

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I love that watch but prefer the yellow dial. It鈥檚 on my shortlist. I haven鈥檛 made up my mind yet, but I think it would go perfect with my Sub and Seamaster. I want something that鈥檚 casual and more outside the box in terms style.

I do agree that it鈥檚 not in the same league as the Sub or Seamaster though. Not even close. I just think it鈥檚 sort of cool. I want it.

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interesting dial layout, but breitling premiere is my first choice for all breitling watch. also welcome joshua to wc crew, 馃嵑

martini

I love that watch but prefer the yellow dial. It鈥檚 on my shortlist. I haven鈥檛 made up my mind yet, but I think it would go perfect with my Sub and Seamaster. I want something that鈥檚 casual and more outside the box in terms style.

I do agree that it鈥檚 not in the same league as the Sub or Seamaster though. Not even close. I just think it鈥檚 sort of cool. I want it.

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You know what? Eff it! First watch I get in March 2024, when my home renovation fund is filled and I'm allowed to buy watches again, will be the Superocean. Either this one...

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Or this one...

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Or this one...

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This is the first time a negative review has convinced me to buy a watch!

Unholy

interesting dial layout, but breitling premiere is my first choice for all breitling watch. also welcome joshua to wc crew, 馃嵑

I originally bought both the Premiere B01...

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... and the AVI 1953 re-edition...

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... brand new. Both chronograph functions broke within 1 month of ownership. Both watches contain their in-house calibre B01 and B09, which is just the B01 but manual wind.

To my mind, in-house watch movement from smaller brands is equivalent to in-house auto transmission, when it comes to quality and reliability, a la Nissan CVT.

Excellent review, and some good counterpoints made in the comments. My take is that it is a handsome watch, love the color, hate the minute hand, and think that it is overpriced by about $2K.

SurferJohn

While I don't disagree with anything you said; I do have something to add. It is no secret I have very little love for the new Superocean; however, my love for Breitling remains long and deep.

Breitling was an early adopter of Ebauches, and as such they focused more on design and finishing; the stuff the customer could see and touch. This has been very successful for the brand, they use good ETA movements along with superb design and finishing.

There is a good off the shelf 60 minute totalizer movement available; Breitling had previously used this movement in their Hercules Pilot watches of the 2000's. But I think the reason it was ruled out on the new Superocean has more to do with waterproofing. It is very difficult and expensive to produce pushers that can be activated underwater. Avoiding the issue altogether, in this case that was the path they selected.

Coincidentally, Tag Heuer used this same movement with waterproof pushers on the Aquagraph models of the 2000's. Despite a small group of collector interest, the watch was not that successful and was swiftly and quietly discontinued.

I agree it would've been a risk to invest in a diving Chrono, but we want companies to take chances.

Look at what the Bel Canto has done for CW. But I guess Breitling is too big to bet the house like that.

Jimmer

The Kelly Slater LE is the first Breitling I bought. Beautiful watch. When my wife saw it she said, 'that watch looks like it was made for you'. This isn't a watch you buy if it's your only watch, cause you wouldn't get it over, say, an Omega Seamaster 300M; however, if you have a few watches like I do (and many enthusiasts do) then it's a nice one to add. I have no regrets. I love mine.

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It's such a pretty watch 馃槏That's why I wanted to much for it to get the movement it deserves.