Hello again to the beautiful Watchcrunch Community! Second opinions wanted! 😁

Yes - that dial has been butchered. Shame.

Definitely not the original dial, badly repainted as chronotriggered said, dam shame 

Definitely not the original dial, badly repainted as chronotriggered said, dam shame 

Sorry, but I definitely wouldn't buy the watch personally unless you can source another dial unpainted from a donor watch, obviously at a great price, otherwise it would blow out the overall cost of the watch once finished.

My suggestion and you can take this with a grain of salt, keep on looking, there are literally thousands of other watches out there in decent condition, all original and at great prices. Patience is the key here unfortunately. 

This one I found for $1 on eBay, I was obviously very lucky as no one else made a bid on the watch, but it can happen 😉

I am going to tag @fancy_man because he knows his Elgin.

I don't think that this is a complete redial.  Most of what I see is consistent with an early 1950's Elgin.  I don't think that the painting of the "G" in Elgin is the problem, I think the "Lord" is off. I am not concerned with the 3 and 9 markers.  Elgin used a variety of those on its rectangle dials. Elgin was not known for their quality control, but the tick marks between 6 and 7 would not have left the factory like that.

What I think that you have is a jeweler's partial redial/repair.  When this watch was being used most regularly in the first 20 or so years of its life it was probably serviced every 3-5 years.  Some clumsy repairman probably took off some paint while taking off the hands.  It was common that they would just repaint the damaged area, often without bothering to tell the watch owner. Elgin was so common that a skilled watchmaker could freehand the lettering and logo without difficulty.

Elgin should  be an excellent entry into vintage collecting.  Here in the States you can get a well kept one for much less than $100.00. People think of Timex when they think of everyday American watches, but that distinction was really Elgin's.

Thank you for your insight, kind sir! I agree, the ticks between 6 and 7 would never have left the factor like that, from what I could garner online. Here in Malaysia, fittingly, vintage Seikos and Omegas tend to be the gold mines. You can get some fantastic pieces in great condition! Looks like I’ll need to keep looking for my first Elgin :/

I do have a question for you sir! Vintage Hamilton, Bulova or Elgin? Which one would you pick in their respective heydays😁

Thank you for your comment, good sir. It’s really a shame, I was very close to buying this watch on the spot, thankfully, my fiancé was there to offer some restraint hahahah! And also a special thank you to you, Chris, as without your knowledge inputs, I would not have been able to spot this redial🙏

To answer your question:  all.

Hamilton retains the most value, so a vintage piece may be several times more expensive than a Bulova or Elgin, without being any better made. I would avoid the "Electric" Hamiltons. They are expensive to maintain. (@ChronoGuy and @Davemcc can tell you more.) They are among the most beautiful and interesting watches ever made, but....

Hamilton is what got me into vintage watches, but Bulova is what keeps me there. I think that 1945-65 Bulova is my favorite era of any manufacturer.  There is a sameness to all of the 23 Jewel Bulovas, but the rest of the line is remarkable. There is more variety in vintage Bulova than the other two.

Elgin is affordable and punches above its weight. I avoid them after the mid-sixties. Quality really declined then.  Also, check out pre-1958 Waltham, the original American watch. Edit: 1945-58 Gruen is a must.

I am going to tag @fancy_man because he knows his Elgin.

I don't think that this is a complete redial.  Most of what I see is consistent with an early 1950's Elgin.  I don't think that the painting of the "G" in Elgin is the problem, I think the "Lord" is off. I am not concerned with the 3 and 9 markers.  Elgin used a variety of those on its rectangle dials. Elgin was not known for their quality control, but the tick marks between 6 and 7 would not have left the factory like that.

What I think that you have is a jeweler's partial redial/repair.  When this watch was being used most regularly in the first 20 or so years of its life it was probably serviced every 3-5 years.  Some clumsy repairman probably took off some paint while taking off the hands.  It was common that they would just repaint the damaged area, often without bothering to tell the watch owner. Elgin was so common that a skilled watchmaker could freehand the lettering and logo without difficulty.

Elgin should  be an excellent entry into vintage collecting.  Here in the States you can get a well kept one for much less than $100.00. People think of Timex when they think of everyday American watches, but that distinction was really Elgin's.

Thank you for your insight, kind sir! I agree, the ticks between 6 and 7 would never have left the factor like that, from what I could garner online. Here in Malaysia, fittingly, vintage Seikos and Omegas tend to be the gold mines. You can get some fantastic pieces in great condition! Looks like I’ll need to keep looking for my first Elgin :/

I do have a question for you sir! Vintage Hamilton, Bulova or Elgin? Which one would you pick in their respective heydays😁

To answer your question:  all.

Hamilton retains the most value, so a vintage piece may be several times more expensive than a Bulova or Elgin, without being any better made. I would avoid the "Electric" Hamiltons. They are expensive to maintain. (@ChronoGuy and @Davemcc can tell you more.) They are among the most beautiful and interesting watches ever made, but....

Hamilton is what got me into vintage watches, but Bulova is what keeps me there. I think that 1945-65 Bulova is my favorite era of any manufacturer.  There is a sameness to all of the 23 Jewel Bulovas, but the rest of the line is remarkable. There is more variety in vintage Bulova than the other two.

Elgin is affordable and punches above its weight. I avoid them after the mid-sixties. Quality really declined then.  Also, check out pre-1958 Waltham, the original American watch. Edit: 1945-58 Gruen is a must.

No worries - sorry about the watch

I agree with @Aurelian  - if you are going to go vintage Hamilton, then stick with the mechanical watches and stay away from the electrics. Same for Bulova. I love vintage Accutrons but, like Hamilton electrics, having them serviced can be relatively expensive compared to the value of the watch. If you don't mind the expensive and difficult to find servicing for these watches, the market prices are not too terrible. However, there are also as many pitfalls with frankenwatches and improperly serviced watches.

Good luck in your search and definitely seek all the books, magazines, and online sources you can find to protect yourself from the redials, "fakes" and malfunctioning watches that are present in the minefield of vintage watch collecting.

I'm no expert by any measure but I would bet both me feet that it's a re-painted dial. The logo alone looks like I did it! Trust me, that's not a good thing lol.

Hamilton was often referred to as "the Patek Phillippe of America" during their heyday because of their consistently high quality, but the fact is that all the American makes made high quality pieces. 

If you want to stick with Elgin I would look for Lord Elgin specifically. Those were Elgin's top of the line pieces with 21 or 23 jewel, manually wound shaped movements, adjusted to positions in either 14k gold filled (both bezel and caseback) or solid precious metal cased.

Other interesting Elgins are the "Thin Thins" from the 1960s. They are automatic Lord Elgins with the 27 or 30 jewel caliber 76x movement. Elgin was the 1st American company to manufacture an automatic movement and one of only two companies to make an automatic movement in the USA (the other being Bulova). All the other American companies imported their auto movements from Switzerland.

That is clearly a reprinted dial.  It does affect the value when refinished like this but when done properly, they can look fantastic.

I’ve had some Hamiltons refinished but they are a different case.  International Dial was an OEM supplier of Hamilton dials, is still in business and retain the original plates for many models.  They can put an original Butler finish with original print on a refinished watch.

It’s been said that the Hamilton 770 movement is the finest American watch movement ever made.  I tended to collect late 50’s to early 60’s Hamilton yet I would suggest that Hamilton’s golden era is pre-war.  By the mid 60’s, Hamilton was just coasting along.  All Hamilton automatic movements were Swiss ebauches.  They never built their own automatics.  Then the parent company sold the Hamilton name and trademarks to SSIH, the Omega/Tissot holding company.

Look at pre-war Hamilton if you really want to take a deep dive into cool vintage. 

When in doubt, I always consider how much my investment is.  Being that it is an Elgin not a Patek, I would be trying to buy this real cheap.  If you think he is asking top dollar(check comparable sales) walk away.  If he is letting it go cheap your risk is low.