So…I’m trying to channel my frustration with this dude just being all that’s wrong with some in the watch collecting world… and it got me thinking, how much of the unobtainability an craziness in todays watch market can be attributed to watch flippers?
Anyone with a basic understanding of markets knows that it’s not “supply and demand“ to price something at a +200% markup…it’s market manipulation. Others will see that “similar watches” are going for this price, and that will drive up the cost of other similar watches…
This just feels bad and slimy…and it feels even worse that it’s a Timex!
Am I nuts?
This account is verified. WatchCrunch has confirmed that this account is the authentic presence for this person or brand.
My catchphrase: "Opinions are like a$$holes... everybody's got one," and here's just one a$$hole's opinion.
So, I'm going to take you at your word, that you are genuinely asking, because you genuinely want feedback. But, then again, I am not neuro-typical, and my understanding is that most human beings ask questions not to seek answers, but mostly to build coalitions and virtue signal.
Anyway, let us assume that you are genuinely asking:
So, in conclusion, market participants cannot, by definition, manipulate the market in the absence of "cornering the market" or government regulatory favor. The reason this "flipper" is able to price at +200% markup is because MSRP set by the manufacturer is a fictional price - it's some random number that some product marketing idiot came up with. The REAL price is the market price determined by supply and demand, and the real price for that watch is +200% of MSRP.
Finally, I will say the following:
Anyway, if you were genuinely asking because you were genuinely seeking information, then I hope the above answer adequately provides that information.
If, on the other hand, you simply wanted to vent... then... I guess I should have answered with: "Yeah! That guy's an a$$hole!"
I mostly agree with Omeganut with a couple of additional thoughts.
First, yes I agree it's a touch scummy but it's not unlike slipping the bouncer at a club a couple of twenties to let you in ahead of the line. You can decide if that's line crossing behavior.
Second, and probably more satisfyingly, most of these guys get their faces ripped off flipping hype watches. They have to get rid of inventory very rapidly or they get hit hard
I remember when the Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 was released last year, I couldn't find it in store or online to try on. Those same watches showed up on eBay very shortly afterwards sporting $1200 price tags. Until maybe December of last year, you could still see them selling for as much as $100 over retail even though they began to be much more plentiful.
Now, high quality, in new in box examples are selling for like $550? Its not ADs who are selling those. Its flippers who bought at $650, will still have to pay a 15% eBay sellers fee and will have to eat the $200 per unir loss in their pocketbooks.
We are seeing the dynamic again with less popular Rolex models (Explorers, Explorer 2s) where the pricing is beginning to weaken and gray market sellers are beginning to have to liquidate at the margins.
I have no doubt that it's going to happen with the Timex GMT too. Just gotta wait for production to catch up and you'll frankly be able to pick them up at discounts on eBay from these same sellers.
It is just a part of collecting that all collectors face, not just watch collectors. I remember the comic book craze of the '90s where comics were going for 3-5 times cover price regularly and some even were 100 times the cover price within hours of publication. Flippers had seen prices of rare comics at auction and began buying comics as investments. A similar thing happened with Beanie Babies, and I have seen numerous card and tabletop games where flippers grab up initial releases and sell them for ridiculous markups. Pretty sure some online businesses have been started this way. 😉 It is just a phenomenon you either learn to deal with or you switch to collecting something else. My wife collects fossils and minerals. She just goes for a walk and sees what she can find. No need to worry about flippers for her hobby. 😂
It is just a part of collecting that all collectors face, not just watch collectors. I remember the comic book craze of the '90s where comics were going for 3-5 times cover price regularly and some even were 100 times the cover price within hours of publication. Flippers had seen prices of rare comics at auction and began buying comics as investments. A similar thing happened with Beanie Babies, and I have seen numerous card and tabletop games where flippers grab up initial releases and sell them for ridiculous markups. Pretty sure some online businesses have been started this way. 😉 It is just a phenomenon you either learn to deal with or you switch to collecting something else. My wife collects fossils and minerals. She just goes for a walk and sees what she can find. No need to worry about flippers for her hobby. 😂
"No need to worry about flippers for her hobby." What a luxury. They're the pirates of collecting...depending on your perspective, they're plundering and dragging the whole trade down...or they're privateers helping address a need in the market!
Anyone with a basic understanding of economics knows that it's very much “supply and demand“ to price something at a +200% markup (or 200% below markup) because ALL economic valuations are subjective, and the seller is well within his rights to ask any price he wishes, just as the buyer is well within his rights to purchase or not.
If someone buys the watch at the higher price, it was unarguably worth it to the purchaser, and the price paid proves it. Otherwise the exchange would not have taken place. That's supply meeting demand.
If someone does not buy the watch at the higher price, it was unarguably not worth the price to those who passed on the deal, and their failure to buy it proves it. Otherwise the exchange would have taken place, but it didn't. That's supply meeting absent demand.
The OP also has every right to an opinion, because that's all economic valuations are, subjective opinions.