When do 9015-powered watch prices start to sound ridiculous?

I wanted to to a series of polls for the sake of a consensus and curiosity!
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E. Depends on the watch. 

I view the 9015 as about equal to a 2824/SW200, so I don't think of it in terms of a "budget watch" only movement. 

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Nothing about watch pricing surprises me, anymore.

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My lack of knowledge on Japanese calibers betrays me here :( Based on the choices, it must be a more high-end Miyota?  Don’t SW200-1 movements go for around $200-$300 USD? Or are the choices in the poll Australian Dollars?

Edit: I thought this was the price of movement only, not the whole watch.  Ignore my medication-induced rambling 😂 

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I own several watches with the 9x movements and I've had zero issues with performance or reliability.  I think the 9x movements were a great improvement over the previous 8x workhorse units.

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ds760476

Nothing about watch pricing surprises me, anymore.

I'll need a few more years to come to that conclusion I feel like. 

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HoroMichigan

My lack of knowledge on Japanese calibers betrays me here :( Based on the choices, it must be a more high-end Miyota?  Don’t SW200-1 movements go for around $200-$300 USD? Or are the choices in the poll Australian Dollars?

Edit: I thought this was the price of movement only, not the whole watch.  Ignore my medication-induced rambling 😂 

All usd, I should have clarified but my medication-induced brain is too lazy to fix it 😂

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SurferJohn

I own several watches with the 9x movements and I've had zero issues with performance or reliability.  I think the 9x movements were a great improvement over the previous 8x workhorse units.

It's starting to become my favorite and preferred movement. 

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I agree with KristianG... It depends. 

What it depends on in my opinion is if it is an off-the-shelf 9015 or if the particular manufacturer has modified the 9015 and if the movement is now within COSC parameters. When watch manufactures start charging in excessive a couple of thousand $$ for a watch I expect them to have a researched and developed in-house movements with all the bugs worked out. 

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That movement retails for $90.00 USD and isn't that impressive to begin with. NH35 is still a better movement for $60.00. 

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OldSnafu

That movement retails for $90.00 USD and isn't that impressive to begin with. NH35 is still a better movement for $60.00. 

I'm curious, what about the NH35 makes it a better movement? 

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HoroMichigan

My lack of knowledge on Japanese calibers betrays me here :( Based on the choices, it must be a more high-end Miyota?  Don’t SW200-1 movements go for around $200-$300 USD? Or are the choices in the poll Australian Dollars?

Edit: I thought this was the price of movement only, not the whole watch.  Ignore my medication-induced rambling 😂 

ETA and Selita have been both getting the Chinese to build some of their movements for them. The Swiss probably do final assembly and oiling which is the only downfall of the Chinese manufacturing process. ETA finished replacement movements are around $400.00. Selita around $200.00. ETA clones from $50 to $200 made in China. Seiko nh35 is around $60 with chinese clones around $30. Miyota 9 series is $90 to $100 with 8 series around $40. Chinese 2813 (near 8 series clone) around $13.00 all USD

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KristianG

I'm curious, what about the NH35 makes it a better movement? 

The 9 series is just the 8 series with a faster beat rate. All the Miyotas are noisy and no more reliable than the NH series. In the used market the Seiko powered ones are sought after more. Miyota licenced their 8 series  movement a long time ago and the QC storm that brought lingers with their reputation. India pretty much invented the Frankenwatch brand. Shake a Miyota to hear it.

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OldSnafu

ETA and Selita have been both getting the Chinese to build some of their movements for them. The Swiss probably do final assembly and oiling which is the only downfall of the Chinese manufacturing process. ETA finished replacement movements are around $400.00. Selita around $200.00. ETA clones from $50 to $200 made in China. Seiko nh35 is around $60 with chinese clones around $30. Miyota 9 series is $90 to $100 with 8 series around $40. Chinese 2813 (near 8 series clone) around $13.00 all USD

You really know your movements. I saw a Ben’s Watch Club video where he was reviewing some Steinhart watches, and referenced your knowledge in his video.  When I saw it, I thought “hey! I know that profile picture”.  I think it’s his newest video. The one with the skeletonized movement.

Edit: Stührling watches, not Steinhart

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OldSnafu

The 9 series is just the 8 series with a faster beat rate. All the Miyotas are noisy and no more reliable than the NH series. In the used market the Seiko powered ones are sought after more. Miyota licenced their 8 series  movement a long time ago and the QC storm that brought lingers with their reputation. India pretty much invented the Frankenwatch brand. Shake a Miyota to hear it.

Fair points, it makes sense that the 9000 series movements would be an evolution rather than a revolution. Why start from scratch when you have a functional foundation to build on? 

The 9000 series have a higher beat rate and are thinner, allowing for thinner watches. The thinness alone more than compensates for the unidirectional winding in my mind. 

As for what is more sought after in the used market, I suspect that has more to do with all the Seiko fanboying all over the internet than any actual practical considerations.

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Aragon (fka Android) was making 300m Dive watches with 9015 movements years ago selling for in a lot of cases under $200. Their fit and finish were on par with watches 3-5x the price

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Does it not kind of depend on the rest of the watch? 
What if the Miyota movement was decorated and regulated by a renowned watchmaker, was placed in a case made of solid gold, a hand enamelled dial, had heat blued hands and was a piece unique? It’s not just the movement, other factors are involved too

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Chunghauphoto

Does it not kind of depend on the rest of the watch? 
What if the Miyota movement was decorated and regulated by a renowned watchmaker, was placed in a case made of solid gold, a hand enamelled dial, had heat blued hands and was a piece unique? It’s not just the movement, other factors are involved too

You make an excellent point. For my next post I'll clarify a bit more for sure! This one was for divers / field watches mostly. 

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Jewbaka

You make an excellent point. For my next post I'll clarify a bit more for sure! This one was for divers / field watches mostly. 

It was an extreme example but its not uncommon for brands to sell watches with ‘basic’ movements. I think I recall IWC doing the same with Sellitas. It takes a little while for movements to gain a dependable reputation sometimes.  Developing a new movement cannot be easy and with intense competition at certain price brackets, it makes it even harder

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This page has excellent info on this movement. People are saying it's actually very quiet and accurate. One person mentioned that it doesn't have the hand winding issues of the ETA 2824. I like it a lot. I ordered a watch with the 9039, which doesn't have the dates function. So no ghost date. https://calibercorner.com/miyota-caliber-9015/

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The Zelos Aurora I'm abut to have delivered will be the first I've ever had with a Miyota movement...the no date version of the 9015.

I paid less than $500, but with all the specs thrown into this watch, I would have spent a bit more. So it really does depend on the watch.

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Jimmer

The Zelos Aurora I'm abut to have delivered will be the first I've ever had with a Miyota movement...the no date version of the 9015.

I paid less than $500, but with all the specs thrown into this watch, I would have spent a bit more. So it really does depend on the watch.

That's a beautiful watch. I'm jelly ;-). Congrats! 

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I think it all depends on the watch in question. I only have one watch with a Miyota movement, the Phantasos Triclops which uses a 90S5. I was the high bidder for this watch in one of the charity auctions run by @HotWatchChick69 , with a bid of $575 USD for what I consider to be a pretty cool Urwerk style wandering hours complication. I doubt that I would have been willing to pay that much for a standard 3 hander with that same movement.

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Isn’t it a but narrow sighted to assume the price is directly tied to the movement?  What if I wanted to produce an “affordable“ watch in precious metal?  The focus would be on case material and maybe design. What if I wanted to do an enamel dial at an affordable price, maybe I’d cut cost on the movement. 

My point is that people create and enjoy watches for different reasons. I like a decent movement, but I’d much rather spend my money on the parts of the watch I see most often. 

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thekris

Isn’t it a but narrow sighted to assume the price is directly tied to the movement?  What if I wanted to produce an “affordable“ watch in precious metal?  The focus would be on case material and maybe design. What if I wanted to do an enamel dial at an affordable price, maybe I’d cut cost on the movement. 

My point is that people create and enjoy watches for different reasons. I like a decent movement, but I’d much rather spend my money on the parts of the watch I see most often. 

That's fair. I'll be adding more criteria for the next poll to narrow it down a bit. 

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tempus

I think it all depends on the watch in question. I only have one watch with a Miyota movement, the Phantasos Triclops which uses a 90S5. I was the high bidder for this watch in one of the charity auctions run by @HotWatchChick69 , with a bid of $575 USD for what I consider to be a pretty cool Urwerk style wandering hours complication. I doubt that I would have been willing to pay that much for a standard 3 hander with that same movement.

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Wow that is cool. How do you tell the time on that? 

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ckim4watches

Wow that is cool. How do you tell the time on that? 

It's really quite simple once you know the "trick".  

Here is a link to a Watchfinder YouTube video that shows the watch, and describes how to read it. The description of how to read it starts at around the 7 minute mark of the video.

FWIW, in my photo, the time is approximately 1:42 (some time between 1:40 and 1:45).

https://youtu.be/JvOm44x83ZI?t=405

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Jewbaka

That's fair. I'll be adding more criteria for the next poll to narrow it down a bit. 

Polls are by nature pretty narrow.  My comment wasn’t meant as a criticism of the poll, I was just pointing out that any one facet of a watch will be crucial to some and not to others.