Back up out of the rabbit hole... AKA, never mind about Independents, I'm buying more GS
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This post is inspired by @mjosamannen’s inspiring trolling of us all: https://www.watchcrunch.com/mjosamannen/posts/to-all-of-those-who-believed-in-me-27179
I believed @mjosamannen when he said that he had reached watch collecting nirvana. I was amongst…
all of you who believed in me and my lofty dreams of sticking to my three watches and living happily ever after
And that’s the thing. The easiest one for us to lie to is ourselves. As he put it…
I was mistaken and and I lied to myself 😥 I was in rush to get locked in and done with the collection. In a hurry to escape the grind of my watchmania…
In my own case, I’d recently convinced myself that I was going independent. It was, in fact…
I’d genuinely convinced myself that it was time to sell a GS in order to buy a Kudoke 2.
On top of that, I signed up on the reservation list for an Atelier Wen Perception with salmon dial.
Both watches are out of this world gorgeous. The dials are phenomenal!!!
I love EVERYTHING about both of these independent watches… except for one thing: Their in-house movements. Why? Why oh why, god, must these watches have in-house movements???
The Kudoke 2 has what their site describes as "Inhouse-movement Kaliber 1-24H, hand winding,” while the Perception has a "Customised Dandong/Peacock SL1588.”
I can’t do it. If these watches had a simple Sellita or NH35, I’d be happy to drop big bucks on ‘em. Unfortunately, here again is my broken record commentary on in-house movements:
I would take an ETA or Sellita or Seiko or Miyota movement over an "in-house" 8 days a week
"Workhorse movements" have shown their reliability and quality in real-world, empirical, day-to-day use and abuse, for decades on end now
Parts are plentiful, any competent watch-maker is equipped to work on them, it's all relatively cheap to maintain, etc., etc.
The only reason that manufacturers are touting "in-house" movements is because the Swatch Group bought up all the movement manufacturers coming out of the quartz crisis, and then wanted to put all their competitors out of business by no longer supplying them with ETA movements, etc. Unfortunately, the Swiss government stepped in to prevent free commerce. As a result, all these manufacturers had to move in-house, and their marketing tells you that in-house is better
But, if in-house is better, why do in-house movements cost so much more? As a business guy, my hypothesis is this: "I gotta charge you a ton upfront, to cover all the downstream warranty costs I gotta eat, when the movement fails you!"
When it comes to complex mechanical components, to make something that will last 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and beyond, requires MASSIVE fixed cost R&D investment. When that happens, you end up with "natural monopolies."
Here are some other examples of natural monopolies:
Microsoft Windows
Shimano bicycle drive trains
ZF8 auto transmissions
Google search
What these all have in common is massive fixed cost R&D investment, that is then amortized over large numbers of units / transactions.
When you try to create "in-house" alternatives, you end up utter crap - even if you have extremely deep pockets. Back in the day, when IBM was a giant, they tried to come up with an alternative to Microsoft's OS, and created OS/2. Utter crap and it died an ignominious death.
Sram is trying to compete with Shimano, but their drive trains really only sell to a niche market.
Check out the Nissan CVT transmission. If you Google it, the entire first page of results will link to class action lawsuits. Arguably, CVT is why Nissan is considered such a lemon Japanese auto brand!
So, I’m climbing back out of the rabbit hole. I mean, I’ve read this book and believe in it whole-heartedly…
… so, I should have known that I was just lying to myself, but there you go!
My next purchases…
Nah, I’m eff'ing with you. Obviously, I’m as predictable as they come. Getting these 2 next!
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The green GMT is a beaut.
When you find out @HotWatchChick69 rides and knows components - - > 🤯 further knows the faults of the Nissan CVT - - > 😮
It’s a shame this post can only be given one - - > ❤ by me. Why? Multiple areas covered, and Grand Seiko’s rule.
This begs a question. Is Giant the Seiko of bicycles?
The green GMT is a beaut.
Yeah, I saw it yesterday at an AD. Only issue is that I have a really nice green shell cordovan strap that I'd love to use, but maybe the forrest green of the strap will clash with the olive-ish green of the SBGM247?
When you find out @HotWatchChick69 rides and knows components - - > 🤯 further knows the faults of the Nissan CVT - - > 😮
It’s a shame this post can only be given one - - > ❤ by me. Why? Multiple areas covered, and Grand Seiko’s rule.
Oh, dude, I used to ride. Lived in Logan, UT for a couple of years, and they have this 201-mile race, called Logan-to-Jackson, that came about because a couple of friends decided to do the route one year, and it's become a real thing! So, EVERYONE there trains like mad, doing crazy mileage, to prep for the race each year. I was doing something like 1,000 miles a month at one point!
I even got my Litespeed Siena custom-painted. Because just like watches, at the time, I was constantly, obsessively checking out bikes all the time! And I figured that if I got my bike custom-painted, it would prevent me from ever selling it, which would mean that I couldn't also then buy yet another one!
But, that was like over a decade ago! Since then, the only exercise I get is lifting cocktails from the table to my mouth.
This begs a question. Is Giant the Seiko of bicycles?
Hmmm...
Based on 10 seconds of thought:
I would say "no"
Cadex only makes some components here and there, right?
For the perfect analogue, we would want a company that does EVERYTHING and is vertically-integrated
So, they would make everything from the wheels to the handle bars to the saddles, plus frames, but most importantly, they would also build drive trains, AND sell to consumers via their own brand
I don't know of any bike company like that - for it to work, I think Shimano would need to expand their offerings into frames and sell Shimano-branded bikes
There is a fascination in watch circles with in-house movements that I reckon these independents are trying to tap into. Reality is, I do wonder how many people who parrot the, "In-house movement! In-house movement!" mantra have ever had a watch serviced? Like, properly, pulled into its component pieces and rebuilt, serviced? When it comes to tiny, obscure brands - which, let's face it, might not even exist in 5 years time - it's way better for them to have workhorse ETA, Selita, Seiko, etc movements.
There is a fascination in watch circles with in-house movements that I reckon these independents are trying to tap into. Reality is, I do wonder how many people who parrot the, "In-house movement! In-house movement!" mantra have ever had a watch serviced? Like, properly, pulled into its component pieces and rebuilt, serviced? When it comes to tiny, obscure brands - which, let's face it, might not even exist in 5 years time - it's way better for them to have workhorse ETA, Selita, Seiko, etc movements.
It's funny, but when I first got into watches, I saw an ad for the Breitling Premier B01 Bentley in green, and thought, "Wow! Gorgeous. I have to have it." 1 month into ownership, the in-house B01 chronograph movement broke!
So, I started doing research about how mechanical movements work, the key failure modes, and how much it costs to do a service! And, that's how I landed on Omega. Their co-axial architecture addresses the key failure mode - oil degradation from heat and friction.
This, however, then led into researching Seiko and the Spring Drive! No escapement, so no friction and oil degradation in the fiddliest part of the movement!
Like, if the Atelier Wen Perception were to somehow break outside its warranty period, what would I have to do to get it fixed? Have my aunt call them up in China, so that she can explain to them in Mandarin that it makes a weird "scritch, scritch" sound when I wind it?
Precisely! It's one of the most straightforward things to consider, yet so many don't. Which is what leads me to believe they've never done a full service on a watch like that (or had any issues), otherwise it would bring the situation into sharp relief for them. Going microbrand? Don't go in-house movement.
Precisely! It's one of the most straightforward things to consider, yet so many don't. Which is what leads me to believe they've never done a full service on a watch like that (or had any issues), otherwise it would bring the situation into sharp relief for them. Going microbrand? Don't go in-house movement.
You and me, right now...
Yeah, I saw it yesterday at an AD. Only issue is that I have a really nice green shell cordovan strap that I'd love to use, but maybe the forrest green of the strap will clash with the olive-ish green of the SBGM247?
That would look good as it is dark enough. Ditto with a tobacco brown padded suede strap.
Oh, dude, I used to ride. Lived in Logan, UT for a couple of years, and they have this 201-mile race, called Logan-to-Jackson, that came about because a couple of friends decided to do the route one year, and it's become a real thing! So, EVERYONE there trains like mad, doing crazy mileage, to prep for the race each year. I was doing something like 1,000 miles a month at one point!
I even got my Litespeed Siena custom-painted. Because just like watches, at the time, I was constantly, obsessively checking out bikes all the time! And I figured that if I got my bike custom-painted, it would prevent me from ever selling it, which would mean that I couldn't also then buy yet another one!
But, that was like over a decade ago! Since then, the only exercise I get is lifting cocktails from the table to my mouth.
That is super impressive and far better than I could ever muster for myself. Primarily, because I couldn’t road bike for more than a few miles. I have friends that are super hard core in to it. Plus I didn’t like competing on roads with cars and breathing their exhaust. Those Litespeed’s are really well built.
All this said, it’s why I stick to mountain biking. I’ve thought of entering amateur races and wanted to start road biking to help train for cross country events.
This begs a question. Is Giant the Seiko of bicycles?
I'd also say nope. Starters, Giant is Taiwan, not Japan.
'Shimano is the Seiko of the cycling world' works not too badly. Both are 800lb gorillas of industry with low spec components you can see at a shopping mall, and high spec components that are crazy pricey and niche. No-name cheap Shimano all the way up to DI2 and Seiko goes from 4R35 up to 9RA5.
That is super impressive and far better than I could ever muster for myself. Primarily, because I couldn’t road bike for more than a few miles. I have friends that are super hard core in to it. Plus I didn’t like competing on roads with cars and breathing their exhaust. Those Litespeed’s are really well built.
All this said, it’s why I stick to mountain biking. I’ve thought of entering amateur races and wanted to start road biking to help train for cross country events.
Get on Zwift for some safe, easy, and super inspiring training!