When does a ‘microbrand’ become a mainstream brand

Since there is no real definition of a microbrand, there is no way to determine when they become an established brand. 

I can only think of one brand that has definitively move from microbrand to independent brand, Christopher Ward. They started as the first online only brand, and now own a manufacturing facility, have an in-house movement, and multiple in-house movement modules. 

Yes and the Bel canto is certainly gaining a significant amount of attention within the community.

I can think of other well known or rising brands that might be micro but seem establslished now such as Marathon, Squale and Baltic off the top of my head.

Maybe it comes to the ability to produce their pieces with little/no reliance on another company to play a part in it.

Volume is one important metric, though I couldn’t tell you what that volume is. The other important distinction is having an actual factory instead of just a design firm and marketing department. As @KristianG  stated, Christopher Ward is a great example. 

I would say it probably has to do with sales numbers and making your own parts. At some point the micro starts to make enough of its own watch parts and sell enough watches that it becomes a legit watch brand. 
 

Or something. 

Four more colors for the Bel Canto will release Thursday.

Same colors as the pre-order. Was hoping for another 4, but the purple and blue were cool.

This is a tough question. I would say if they own their entire production, assembly, and distribution, and have a significant marketing spend, they are knocking on the door out of the micro realm. 

Ok, I was just going by what they said in the email...that there would be four new colours.  If they are the same then, well, that gives people an opportunity to grab those when they couldn't before.

What the heck is a Bel Canto???? I have never heard of or seen one..

Marathon has been around since the early 1900s, and made watches for the allies in WWII, they are definitely not a microbrand. 

This links back to the definition problem, I can tell you when a brand isn't a microbrand, but I can't define what makes a brand a microbrand.

It’s a watch from Christopher Ward (a smaller brand) which encompasses a chime complication… usually the domain of the ‘big boys’ and at a higher price point… making it worthy of note from an ‘upstart brand’ like CW.

https://www.christopherward.com/c1-bel-canto-blue.html

Indeed :) I wasn’t dismissing the history of Marathon but included it to illustrate the grey line of smaller brand/microband.

I think there needs to be a sufficient catalogue of models available (but don't ask me to put a number on that), a certain longevity (say more than a decade?) and some tipping point level of acceptance by the global watch community. Nomos are a good example for me - I feel like they were a microbrand when I first got interested in this stuff but somewhere along the way they started scoring too high on the above criteria. Tough to say when though...

I'll have to check them out. I had a Christopher Ward but my son wanted it soooo, anyway thanks for the info

I thought the same thing until I saw the four colors in the logo in the email.

Apple 1976

Casio(1957) first watch1974 , G Shock 1983

So, we are going with Apple Watch as having 40-50 years of history because Apple was founded 38 years ago, the iPhone was introduced 15 years ago, and the first watch was produced 7 years ago?  Steve Jobs was born in 1955, so makes total sense. 

Brand recognition 

Apple 47 years

Exactly!  First watch was 48 years ago and first g-Shock doesn't turn 40 until April. Casio was a microbrand until 2015 per the definition. 

The first Apple PC wasn’t sold until 1984, so no, they don’t have 40 years of brand recognition. 
 

Besides that you said 40-50 years of production. So is it production or brand recognition that makes something not a microbrand?  Note my Oris example previously. 100+ years of production, but no mainstream recognition. Are they a microbrand?

Sat in front of new Apple 1 in 1976.

1984 was the Apple 3

I'm moving on from this and go watch a football game. 

Have a great Sunday!

This is a great question!  For over 20 years there have been a lot if not most companies that have made or sourced everything from the case to the hands they designed and used ETA’s movements sort of like designing the entire car and using engines from GM, Chrysler or Ferrari.  One outstanding “Micro“ brand that hasn’t been mentioned is Monta.  Their fit and finish and bracelet with micro adjust I feel is on par with my Tudor and Rolexs.  Just my opinion.  With all the new manufacturing equipment of today it is an exciting time to be in this hobby.

Great response! I agree. I am a mainstreamer at the moment but do like the Aquascaphe from Baltic as a first foray into that world!

General rule of thumb I have heard before is volume. 

10,000 watches per year puts you into a mainstream brand. 

Its nothing to do with with quality or price IMHO. 

The other thing to consider is when the Quartz movement came out many independent Swiss watchmakers folded up shop and then 30 years later were resurrected by people with strong funding That researched either their unique movements or company history and started them back up.

Like Potter Stewart said: "I know it when I see it."

Existing/flourishing once the founders leave makes a lot of sense to me.

When their watches are available to purchase all the time and not just for 2 weeks

Did you see the release today?