How Much History Do You Need to Get the Hype Watch You Want?
Obligatory clickbait platinum chocolate ceramic Rolex Daytona.
Rambling to follow.
In one of @Omeganut's super long threads, I openly wondered what an authorized dealer's prior purchase history requirement was to gain access to super high demand, low supply models without significant waitlists. My collecting, historically, has not really revolved around super hype models, so I've never really viewed getting AD access as a goal worth pursuing in any specific way.
Yet, the more stories I hear about folks waiting for months and years for specific models of in demand watches, the more curious I get about what sort of prior purchase history ADs require for access and how it varies across geographies and individuals.
Hypothetically, it should be something that is arbitraged out (a dealer with a lower prior purchase history requirements should get more business than one with higher ones) but I have no idea if that's how it actually works.
It should also obviously be different by type of watch. More submariners and datejusts are produced than ceramic daytonas, GMT Master IIs, and PP Nautliuses (Nautili?), so it stands to reason that the number is smaller for the former than the latter.
My curiosity was further piqued by a relatively recent alcohol enabled conversation with my AD sales guy, where he let slip that a $200K prior purchase history over the past couple of years probably would get me access to the vast majority of high end models at retail without substantial wait lists (referencing specifically the ceramic daytona in steel, nautiluses and aquanauts).
I was struck by this candor because $200K feels like an insanely ridiculous, yet completely rational amount of money for access to something which they legally can't sell the higher market clearing price. Might as well make the money somewhere.
In the interest of full transparency, I am based in the SF Bay Area and, while I won't name my AD, you can assume it is one of the high volume dealers in the area.
I have spent nowhere near that $200K amount, though I have been a reasonably regular customer over the past 8 years. I did help my sales guy start a 529 for his kid, invest in i-bonds, and generally put his investment life in order, so I probably got some points there.
Of very in demand watches that I've expressed interest in, I requested a ceramic daytona and was told, in no uncertain terms, that I was not going to get one. My AD did me a solid and sold me a two tone instead (which I love).
At any rate, I am super curious about your experiences (and particularly how wide the prior purchase spread is), my fellow WatchCrunchers. Do you know what your authorized dealer's "number" is for access to extremely high demand models at the retail price without a significant wait time?
By day, investor and father. By night, Seiko nut. #justgooutsideandtouchgrass
Interesting. With my new AD I've spent money, not $200K, but I've purchased some jewelry, bought a Seiko and had a service done on my Breitling. All of these things were needed and wanted so to me it was no big deal. I can say on r/rolex* via Reddit they have a thread that keeps track of this and it is quite interesting to see. Some people are walking in and getting pieces, others have been waiting quite a bit of time. I watched a video by Federico (Federico Talks Watches on YouTube) and he did a video as a former AD sales rep and said most of the pieces we want they have in the safe and it comes down to either they like you, you're a premium customer, or it was a piece you "inquired" about. But he was basically saying they generally have the pieces because of hording. It's silly to me because the dollar amount is the same, but if it's one of the premium customers, they stand to gain more in the long term from a sales perspective. I get it, I've worked in sales and can see both sides. It's still annoying.
Additionally, my AD claims there is no spend. They want to sell pieces to people who enjoy watches and who will keep them for a long time. We shall see. I put a request in for a Rolex in March 2022 so I'll report back.
*Go to reddit and search for r/rolex and off to the side on the side bar you'll see "2020-2021 AD Wait Time Megathread" It's still going into 2022.
The instant profit on a new Platona will buy you a new BMW right now. I don’t know who is getting them or how but it isn’t me.
Absolutely amazing!!!
The $200k makes perfect logical sense to me. It's a crazy amount to spend, yet it's not like private jet money. Beyond that, if you can drop a couple hundred thousand dollars over a couple of years, you're clearly not the type to go about flipping watches. Why would you give up your VIP status in order to flip a watch and make a quick $10k? That $10k is clearly chump change, to someone like that, right?
I've heard similar stories about Porsche and Hermes. Like, in order to get an allocation for the GT3 or the GT4 RS, you had to have purchased many, many other Porsches from a dealership, before they'll give you access to either of those GT cars. Hermes are the master of "buy a lot of random crap, and eventually we'll let you buy a Birkin," yeah?
I have ZERO insight on getting access to high demand PP, AP, and Rolex pieces, but I can provide info on what it takes to get access to highly limited edition Grand Seiko pieces.
So, also, just now, I texted him and asked him if there were some required spend level, and if in my own case, he were giving me access to stuff only because I'm so good-looking.
Manager: Nope. We don't do that. Your being a Boutique Client is enough to get you a piece you want. You just gotta be quicker than the other Boutique Clients when you call. Now, your spending level does come into play when you're competing with other Boutique Clients for a limited piece, but your relationship with that particular Boutique also comes into play. It's a mix of things, man. Definitely not your looks, though. That's for sure.
Me: Come on, bro! You've never seen me in person! I could be more handsome than Brad Pitt for all you know!
Manager: Well... since I only like women, it wouldn't matter, now would it?
So, there you have it. At least with GS Boutiques, it seems to be that just establishing yourself as a customer of the Boutique, and then having a good relationship with the sales folks is enough to get you the pieces you want!
And all of this comports with my general experiences with different brands. Every time I've ever talked to folks at Rolex Boutiques, I've been treated as though I have an especially contagious form of Ebola. Whereas it's been nothing but congeniality from GS. And this is further reinforced by @wilfried's story about having bought only 1 watch from one of the two boutiques in NYC, but every time he walks into either, everyone there says hello to him, calling him by his name!!!
A couple of things to consider and think about...
1) You live in the SF Bay Area and your AD is in that area. Not only are there millions of people in the Bay Area, it also has one of the highest density of wealth anywhere in the world (because Silicon Valley). You are essentially competing against that demographic for the SS ceramic Daytona or any other highly-desirable Rolex. While your "high volume" AD may get a lot of watches shipped to them from Rolex because of the nature Bay Area, you're just never going to get anywhere close to getting one unless you happen to have a great story to convince the AD to jump you up the list (e.g. (getting married and really want that ONE watch to wear on your wedding day).
2) There are smaller family-owned ADs in smaller towns throughout the US that if you took the time and ventured out to find one, and chatted them up there's a good chance they may have said watch or able to get said watch sooner than one in a big city market. ADs in small towns want to establish new customer relationships with buyers that will come to them not for one watch, but more. It's about the relationship for these small family-owned ADs. You might give that a try.
Interesting. With my new AD I've spent money, not $200K, but I've purchased some jewelry, bought a Seiko and had a service done on my Breitling. All of these things were needed and wanted so to me it was no big deal. I can say on r/rolex* via Reddit they have a thread that keeps track of this and it is quite interesting to see. Some people are walking in and getting pieces, others have been waiting quite a bit of time. I watched a video by Federico (Federico Talks Watches on YouTube) and he did a video as a former AD sales rep and said most of the pieces we want they have in the safe and it comes down to either they like you, you're a premium customer, or it was a piece you "inquired" about. But he was basically saying they generally have the pieces because of hording. It's silly to me because the dollar amount is the same, but if it's one of the premium customers, they stand to gain more in the long term from a sales perspective. I get it, I've worked in sales and can see both sides. It's still annoying.
Additionally, my AD claims there is no spend. They want to sell pieces to people who enjoy watches and who will keep them for a long time. We shall see. I put a request in for a Rolex in March 2022 so I'll report back.
*Go to reddit and search for r/rolex and off to the side on the side bar you'll see "2020-2021 AD Wait Time Megathread" It's still going into 2022.
Exactly, I think most of us are in this bucket. Buy a few things and see what happens. I have a good relationship with my AD but not THAT good a relationship.
It was just one of those jarringly candid moments where I suspected something was true but to have it told to me was striking (and refreshing!).
I'm not even mad that they do it (though that's easy for me to say, I'm not even queueing for a new Rolex steel sports model or Nautilus/Royal Oak at this moment so it's somewhat irrelevant) but I was definitely curious to see if other people had experiences in this regard.
I hope you get yours!
A couple of things to consider and think about...
1) You live in the SF Bay Area and your AD is in that area. Not only are there millions of people in the Bay Area, it also has one of the highest density of wealth anywhere in the world (because Silicon Valley). You are essentially competing against that demographic for the SS ceramic Daytona or any other highly-desirable Rolex. While your "high volume" AD may get a lot of watches shipped to them from Rolex because of the nature Bay Area, you're just never going to get anywhere close to getting one unless you happen to have a great story to convince the AD to jump you up the list (e.g. (getting married and really want that ONE watch to wear on your wedding day).
2) There are smaller family-owned ADs in smaller towns throughout the US that if you took the time and ventured out to find one, and chatted them up there's a good chance they may have said watch or able to get said watch sooner than one in a big city market. ADs in small towns want to establish new customer relationships with buyers that will come to them not for one watch, but more. It's about the relationship for these small family-owned ADs. You might give that a try.
This has been my exact experience and advice to friends who have been searching for hype watches. Take a drive a couple hours out of the area and find a place in a smaller town (that's not, you know, Aspen) and see what happens.
But my guess is that even in those smaller markets, there's probably some cost to the relationship building. I'm super curious what that cost is because those authorized dealers should get much much more business than the others (assuming you're searching for hype watches).
Absolutely amazing!!!
The $200k makes perfect logical sense to me. It's a crazy amount to spend, yet it's not like private jet money. Beyond that, if you can drop a couple hundred thousand dollars over a couple of years, you're clearly not the type to go about flipping watches. Why would you give up your VIP status in order to flip a watch and make a quick $10k? That $10k is clearly chump change, to someone like that, right?
I've heard similar stories about Porsche and Hermes. Like, in order to get an allocation for the GT3 or the GT4 RS, you had to have purchased many, many other Porsches from a dealership, before they'll give you access to either of those GT cars. Hermes are the master of "buy a lot of random crap, and eventually we'll let you buy a Birkin," yeah?
I have ZERO insight on getting access to high demand PP, AP, and Rolex pieces, but I can provide info on what it takes to get access to highly limited edition Grand Seiko pieces.
So, also, just now, I texted him and asked him if there were some required spend level, and if in my own case, he were giving me access to stuff only because I'm so good-looking.
Manager: Nope. We don't do that. Your being a Boutique Client is enough to get you a piece you want. You just gotta be quicker than the other Boutique Clients when you call. Now, your spending level does come into play when you're competing with other Boutique Clients for a limited piece, but your relationship with that particular Boutique also comes into play. It's a mix of things, man. Definitely not your looks, though. That's for sure.
Me: Come on, bro! You've never seen me in person! I could be more handsome than Brad Pitt for all you know!
Manager: Well... since I only like women, it wouldn't matter, now would it?
So, there you have it. At least with GS Boutiques, it seems to be that just establishing yourself as a customer of the Boutique, and then having a good relationship with the sales folks is enough to get you the pieces you want!
And all of this comports with my general experiences with different brands. Every time I've ever talked to folks at Rolex Boutiques, I've been treated as though I have an especially contagious form of Ebola. Whereas it's been nothing but congeniality from GS. And this is further reinforced by @wilfried's story about having bought only 1 watch from one of the two boutiques in NYC, but every time he walks into either, everyone there says hello to him, calling him by his name!!!
I am waiting for the Cliffs Notes version of this comment to be released.
I am waiting for the Cliffs Notes version of this comment to be released.
tldr; With GS Boutiques, establish yourself as a customer of the Boutique by buying 1 watch, become friends with 1 sales guy (ideally the manager), and that is enough to get you any high demand / limited edition piece you want
I am waiting for the Cliffs Notes version of this comment to be released.
Interesting. With my new AD I've spent money, not $200K, but I've purchased some jewelry, bought a Seiko and had a service done on my Breitling. All of these things were needed and wanted so to me it was no big deal. I can say on r/rolex* via Reddit they have a thread that keeps track of this and it is quite interesting to see. Some people are walking in and getting pieces, others have been waiting quite a bit of time. I watched a video by Federico (Federico Talks Watches on YouTube) and he did a video as a former AD sales rep and said most of the pieces we want they have in the safe and it comes down to either they like you, you're a premium customer, or it was a piece you "inquired" about. But he was basically saying they generally have the pieces because of hording. It's silly to me because the dollar amount is the same, but if it's one of the premium customers, they stand to gain more in the long term from a sales perspective. I get it, I've worked in sales and can see both sides. It's still annoying.
Additionally, my AD claims there is no spend. They want to sell pieces to people who enjoy watches and who will keep them for a long time. We shall see. I put a request in for a Rolex in March 2022 so I'll report back.
*Go to reddit and search for r/rolex and off to the side on the side bar you'll see "2020-2021 AD Wait Time Megathread" It's still going into 2022.
Not that I’m in the market, but thanks for the info. I will say, I think it’s comical for an AD to claim it’s about who’s going to keep the watch. I have never sold a watch, and if an AD would sell me an explorer at retail, I’d swear on my mother and a stack of bibles I’d pass it on to my son when I die. The thing is, I imagine there are literally thousands of people who can honestly say the same Which makes me question of that AD was being honest with you.
Well only took me 2 seiko 5‘s to get me access to the new Seiko 5 Gmt reservation 😉…
Well only took me 2 seiko 5‘s to get me access to the new Seiko 5 Gmt reservation 😉…
Duuuude, I'm gonna need a review when you get it because let's be honest with the hookup you have with your Seiko AD, you are 100% getting it before the rest of us mere mortals. I'm trying to decide if I want to wait for the hype to die down before I step in line.
No one can truly answer as it varies from dealer to dealer and the individual agents. I have spent nowhere near $200K, but I have access to just about any model I want with enough notice to get one from the next batch. There have been so many posts on this with greater detail that are worth going back to. Long and short; Be nice, intentionally demonstrate you are an enthusiast, buy other brands, buy occasional jewelry, and you will be surprised how much you have access to. Now, this can be much tougher in big metro areas. I know in NYC the number is much higher than $200K (closer to a million), but go to one in Indiana you might get a Batman after one or two purchases. Again, all depends on location, your relationship with agent, and what kind of inventory your particular AD gets. IE, my agent gets allotted two Dayotnas a year. I knew from the outset that I would be waiting a bit, but two years and a few other pieces later it worked out.
Exactly, I think most of us are in this bucket. Buy a few things and see what happens. I have a good relationship with my AD but not THAT good a relationship.
It was just one of those jarringly candid moments where I suspected something was true but to have it told to me was striking (and refreshing!).
I'm not even mad that they do it (though that's easy for me to say, I'm not even queueing for a new Rolex steel sports model or Nautilus/Royal Oak at this moment so it's somewhat irrelevant) but I was definitely curious to see if other people had experiences in this regard.
I hope you get yours!
I hope I get it. I read a review from a guy who got his Rolex for his birthday and he had no buying history with my new AD. He wrote an awesome review after so that's the main reason I went to them. My rep is awesome and has been great so fingers crossed I'll be posting a "Wrist shot" in the fall of my new piece.
Duuuude, I'm gonna need a review when you get it because let's be honest with the hookup you have with your Seiko AD, you are 100% getting it before the rest of us mere mortals. I'm trying to decide if I want to wait for the hype to die down before I step in line.
Yup as soon as I get all three I do a review on them… my AD was like “What !! you want all three??!!” 😳 lol and then he quickly realized he was talking to me and “oh shit! Thats right” 😂 I will def. Need to book an appointment with my therapist soon ….
I’m truly curious (and a bit flummoxed) but if one is willing to put down that kind of cash ($200K) at the AD in hopes of the chance of getting a Daytona, why not just buy the damned thing from the grey market and pay the markup? They probably end up spending less money at the end of the day. Is it because they recoup some of that spend by reselling those unwanted pieces?
I’m truly curious (and a bit flummoxed) but if one is willing to put down that kind of cash ($200K) at the AD in hopes of the chance of getting a Daytona, why not just buy the damned thing from the grey market and pay the markup? They probably end up spending less money at the end of the day. Is it because they recoup some of that spend by reselling those unwanted pieces?
Agreed, spending that much for a chance is silly, especially in a big metro area. I still wouldn’t pay over for any watch on principle. That said, as someone who wants to own several watches and buys his wife jewelry, I’m willing to play along to a certain extent. I have a great SA, so he’s never tried to push anything I don’t want on me.
I’m truly curious (and a bit flummoxed) but if one is willing to put down that kind of cash ($200K) at the AD in hopes of the chance of getting a Daytona, why not just buy the damned thing from the grey market and pay the markup? They probably end up spending less money at the end of the day. Is it because they recoup some of that spend by reselling those unwanted pieces?
You know, I think if you're spending that much, $200K is probably like simply a cost of entry to not waiting for new stock and being able to brag for a night to friends that you not only got the watch but you got it at the right price. Especially if its money that were going to spend anyway on gifts etc.
I mean, I know plenty of folks who pay $6K a month to brag about belonging to a golf or social club so the psychology is probably the same.
And hell, if over 5 years down the line I end up dropping that much money with the same guy at the same AD, I'd probably be a little miffed if I had to wait with the rest of us peasants.
Agreed, spending that much for a chance is silly, especially in a big metro area. I still wouldn’t pay over for any watch on principle. That said, as someone who wants to own several watches and buys his wife jewelry, I’m willing to play along to a certain extent. I have a great SA, so he’s never tried to push anything I don’t want on me.
I think they're spending that much so there isn't a chance. They're just the natural place for the AD to place incremental stock that arrives in store.
I’m truly curious (and a bit flummoxed) but if one is willing to put down that kind of cash ($200K) at the AD in hopes of the chance of getting a Daytona, why not just buy the damned thing from the grey market and pay the markup? They probably end up spending less money at the end of the day. Is it because they recoup some of that spend by reselling those unwanted pieces?
I don't have any personal experience with regard to seeking out a Daytona or a PP / AP / VC integrated bracelet sports watch, BUT I can say the following:
I mean, that was effectively what went through my mind when my GS guy offered me the SBGK015.
There must be people who specifically say to themselves, "Dammit, I want the ceramic Daytona / SS Nautilus / SS Royal Oak so badly that I'm going to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on this AD / boutique / salesperson in order to get access to it." But, I've gotta imagine that that must be the minority - after all, that person can simply go on Chrono24 and buy one, as you pointed out. I have a much easier time imagining that people who hit the $200k or whatever threshold and get access to whatever watch they want, are the people in my narrative.