Well, that's a Rolex off my list...
Rolex Tells Tiny Children's Wall Clock Maker Oyster&Pop To Change Its Name
Oyster&Pop was set up during the pandemic by Devon-based sisters Emma Ross-McNairn and Sarah Davies to make educational wall clocks.
I have been a watch collector now for around 2 years, it is very much a passion. I work hard and the a target for me (which I have always done, not sure if it's just me) was to buy my very first Rolex by the age of 35. I am now 31 and had started saving rapidly towards the £6-8000 I need for a standard SS day-date or an Air-king. However, in recent years and months, I have read and heard horrendous stories around the dealers practices, wait time and lack of customer service, which I can sort of ignore, because, well, it's a ROLEX! However I read this story a couple of days ago and it made my blood boil! I have never been so angry at a company or brand for picking on the little guy, and it breaks my heart but I have vouched never to buy a new Rolex ever (or until things dramatically change at Rolex).
Time to start looking at omega and cartier I think for my first luxury watch, but has this happened to anybody before and if so, what's your story?
BD
Welcome to my WatchCrunch profile.
I think this story has been a bit misunderstood and misrepresented. The word Oyster in relation to watches (movements, cases, dials and other parts of watches) is a trademarked by Rolex. It was first registered as a trademark in 1928 and has been renewed ever since. You can even look up those trademark details yourself.
This is not really the big corporation of Rolex picking on the small family startup. These are just the legalities. If there is a trademark, you can not use that for any other business. Rolex wants to keep that trademark and be able to renew it, so it also has to enforce the trademark.
Unfortunate for the small business, as the Oyster name had a different meaning for them, but a trademark is a trademark.
There are many many better alternatives to Rolex out there. The more I learn the more I know this.
I saw this. I was even sent a petition from change.org to complete in defense of the two lovely Mums that set this up (all credit to them). However, I decided that sadly this was futile, because there were marques like RolCo and "The Oyster Watch Comapny" set up by Wilsdorf in the 1920s and I imagine Rolex has pretected all these marques.
Rolex lawyers just doing what they are paid to do… and you can just avoid the name Oyster, Rolex have had that trademarked for a very long time. I want to sympathise, but due diligence would have been paramount.
Unpopular post this one… sorry.
You can’t use another company’s trademarks (no matter how cute and fun you make it). A simple cease and desist letter should have been enough to resolve this. It should not be news story.
This oyster name has caused a lot of debate ,but it's in black and white , would everybody complain if a start up car company used the name Porsche
To be honest, I’m more concerned with people thinking Rolex are wrong, and then just talking about boycotting them for the oversight of others. The Oyster trademark, in watches, has been around for donkeys years. Rolex sold watches branded as Oyster as well. Politely speaking - get a grip.
If someone starts using one of your trademarks on a product that you also sell, in your market, you would do what, let them?
If the UK allows the trademark then this goes to bed and Rolex will have had the right to challenge, and will respect the outcome no doubt.
There are so many better brands in every category than Rolex. Don't waste your money there.
There are lots of general brands on my blacklist. Like Samsung for example. But Rolex made that list purely on how their ADs threat customers. I'm a customer, not a beggar. Treat me like one!
Well I started this, but as has been so we'll put by Porthole and a few others there is 2 sides to this and the law is the law, if you make a car and call it porsche your in trouble,breed a new type of rose and call it porsche you might get away with it. Yes our hearts will side with the little guy(or in this case 2 ladies) but the head (corporate to the letter of the law copyright infringement etc) will side with the big company. It's not the first case of this type of thing(the courts are always busy with this type of case. And in the law there is no 'common sense' it's black n white,right n wrong and however distasteful its the law and somebody will uphold it. As I have found out by some research,do my original attitude has shifted somewhat, and of course all the lawyers get a fat fee that allows them to buy the super priced products that they 'protect'.
They are all at it, all big companies employ people to look out for and protect 'the brand' . Unfortunate and distasteful as it seems to us little folk it's a fact of life, and occasionally it works the other way. Personally it's a bit of a tenuous link between a kiddies clock and a high end watch maker with both names on a dial but it's been trademarked so that's it.
Well I started this, but as has been so we'll put by Porthole and a few others there is 2 sides to this and the law is the law, if you make a car and call it porsche your in trouble,breed a new type of rose and call it porsche you might get away with it. Yes our hearts will side with the little guy(or in this case 2 ladies) but the head (corporate to the letter of the law copyright infringement etc) will side with the big company. It's not the first case of this type of thing(the courts are always busy with this type of case. And in the law there is no 'common sense' it's black n white,right n wrong and however distasteful its the law and somebody will uphold it. As I have found out by some research,do my original attitude has shifted somewhat, and of course all the lawyers get a fat fee that allows them to buy the super priced products that they 'protect'.
They are all at it, all big companies employ people to look out for and protect 'the brand' . Unfortunate and distasteful as it seems to us little folk it's a fact of life, and occasionally it works the other way. Personally it's a bit of a tenuous link between a kiddies clock and a high end watch maker with both names on a dial but it's been trademarked so that's it.
Keep a look out for my Tig Hour and Common Elm watches launching soon
I'd rename my brand
rOYalSTER
and make the r,a and l tiny. 😁
This doesn’t affect me getting a Rolex or not, but it’s super shady. Maybe I should boycott Rolex, but I only boycott companies that will give a sh*t, and they most certainly will not.
Damn, that just sucks 😕
I'm sorry for the small business owners, but this is nothing personal, it's business.
What Rolex is asking is to change the name which should not shut the business down. In such cases, the company making the claim (Rolex in our case) can allow the accused to finish selling their current stock before rebranding. This should result in a minimal impact on the business. No idea if Rolex was so gracious however.
This seems to be a bit blown out of proportion IMO.
And to answer the question “Is it fair for Rolex to stop us from using the word Oyster?”
Yes, 100%.
I'm not trying to "put the little guy down" but fair is fair and according to Trademark Law Rolex is well within their rights and should enforce the trademark.
I'm honestly surprised of the online reaction and that the petition got so many signatures.
Whether or not Rolex is worth the asking price or should you buy one is another topic entirely and given the nature of the product more of a question for the individual not the group.
This doesn’t affect me getting a Rolex or not, but it’s super shady. Maybe I should boycott Rolex, but I only boycott companies that will give a sh*t, and they most certainly will not.
How is a company impeding on an existing Rolex trademark shady from Rolex?
I seriously doubt Rolex is expecting this issue to ever go before a judge in a court of law or some trademark enforcement agency. They are counting on this to be settled because they know the owners of Oyster&Pop do not have the financial resources to litigate it. And if Oyster&Pop does try to litigate it, Rolex has deeper pockets. Which makes Rolex look like asses. But then Rolex can afford to look like asses.
I’m not saying Rolex doesn’t have the right to take legal action to protect their brand trademarks. In fact I’d love to see Rolex take legal action to protect their brand from the unscrupulous people feeding their products into the grey market! That’s where damage is being done to their brand. I’m saying the notion put forth by Rolex that anyone would mistake “Oyster&Pop” children’s clocks and chore charts for Rolex or that it somehow harms Rolex is ridiculous.
I give up - anyone else?
What probable cause have they shown? What concrete harm have they shown? Can they show they lost money because “Osyter&Pop“ is printed on a child’s clock and chore chart? Can they show a consumer that mistakenly believed Oyster&Pop is related to Rolex? If they can show that they can find a consumer that believes Nabisco Soup& Oyster crackers are related to Rolex. And if they can, what harm has that caused their brand? Or are they hanging their hat on theoretical legal arguments? Because I‘d love to see evidence of concrete harm to Rolex’s interest.
A few years ago Lewis Hamilton, the Formula 1 driver, lost a legal battle to force Hamilton Watch to stop using the name Hamilton. I‘m a Lewis fan and thought it was an asinine thing for him to do. I’m enough of a Rolex fan to have my name on the list to purchase an Explorer, but I still think this is an asinine thing for Rolex to do.
The startup business for educational clocks filed to trademark "Oyster and Pop". Filing to trademark something comes with a time to oppose, meaning anyone who thinks the trademark should not be approved for any reason can come forward. After which the court will look at the opposal and either approve the trademark or not.
Rolex thinks it infringes on their existing trademark and thus opposed within this period. It's up to the court to decide if they are correct or not.
Oyster trademark from Rolex: https://trademarks.justia.com/712/55/oyster-71255783.html
Oyster and Pop trademark: https://trademarks.justia.com/905/62/oyster-90562387.html
You might see this as bullying, you might see this as Rolex protecting their trademark, but before choosing sides it's important to understand the legalities.
Exactly - but you know, the law is the law. You might not like it, but Rolex can (and will) fight the use of the name Oyster.
Be that as it may, the notion that Rolex has suffered even slightest hint of branding damage to the their trademark by the term “Oyster&Pop” appearing on a child’s clock and chore chart is risible. Rolex and Oyster&Pop are and different products operating in distinct and different market segments.
I understand the theoretical and legal arguments in Rolex is mustering in this action. I just don’t buy them. That’s all.
It might be worth buying an Oyster& Pop clock now with this logo as an investment for the future if Rolex win and force them to change name.
It will certainly help the child's clock company out. In fact this has got to be helpful for them anyway, as everyone knows there no such thing as bad publicity.
Apparently though, you’re wrong. It’s fine to impinge on trademarks, because, you know, it doesn’t matter. That’s why you see Oyster branded watches everywhere because it’s just a biscuit flavour. The same way that every brand has a Seamaster model, or that I know of three Seiko brands, one of them actually founded in Peckham in 2007. I know of six Ford Motor Companies, and three Skoda. Only one Renault though, oddly, so I’m going to file a trademark for that tomorrow for my new business model where I rebrand Hyundai Tucson’s and wrap them in tinfoil. They are different because they are so shiny.
safe to say everybody cant tell the difference between “Rolex“ and “Oyster”
Me reading this thread
This thread probably sits around no.4 on my ”times I wonder why I bother with this platform”. No.3 is when everyone decided to theoretically save an Apple Watch over a Hublot, which cements why I think 70% of you are (respectfully) not my target audience. I don’t wish to discuss nos. 1 and 2 publicly, I’m happy to chat privately if you really want to know.
I would like to thank a number of you who reached out to me via DM yesterday regarding this thread, that was very kind of you all. We had a good laugh. I wasn’t intending to be a martyr, and a good captain always goes down with his ship. I tried, and I failed, to apply some balance and insight as to why this isn’t a clear-cut case of a big firm bullying a little firm, there is 80+ years of precedence here, and you can’t just name your brand anything you want without due diligence.
I get it, we love an underdog story, but sometimes the underdog is not necessarily without their issues. Rolex will have no doubt faced countless attempts to trademark things with a similarity in name of whatever when it comes to clocks/watches/etc… it’s going to be hard to top them, but you have to trust the process. If whoever makes the decision feels this is not an impingement on the pre-existing UK trademarks then this story has a happy ending for Oyster&Pop, if not, then the decision must be respected for what it is: the law. I wish them luck, but, again, this could have been avoided by calling their brand anything else. This is an unpopular opinion, fine, but it reflects the status quo.
The argument here is, not one normie will ever relate “oyster” to “rolex”. similar to how no one will relate seiko to some fella in peckham. (Solid argument)
i get that law is law, but the minnow will always lose if no one’s standing up for them.
Buy a Speedy and bask in the knowledge you have the best watch at ANY price. While you‘re at it, pick up a Casio 1200 and you’ll have a nice beater and the second best watch at any price.
Rolex hasn't batted an eyelid at this... so far! 😮
https://www.createprint3d.com/#/diverswatch/
Just stick with Omega. Better watches anyhow.
Like Omega wouldn't do the same exact thing if they named it Speedy & Pop or whatever Omega has trademarked.