Pin and collar systems were devised by Satan! Anyone else agree with me?

So I just finished sizing a bracelet for my Seiko Presage Blackout Cocktail Time and for my Zodiac Super Sea Wolf 53 Blue/White.

Each has a different pin and collar system and both systems are infernal.

I have large fingers that are very coordinated when playing a guitar, but are almost useless when trying to put a tiny piece of metal back into a tiny hole and manipulate the beads of rice links into position without the collar falling back out, but keeping the holes lined up so that you can hammer the pin back in place.

The picture above is the simplist form of pin and collar - imagine the complexity when you are now dealing with beads of rice or better yet Seiko's system which has two tiny collars on either end so that when you turn the bracelet vertical to hammer in the pin, the collar on the bottom falls out and vice versa.

Is it just me? Am I the only one incompetant (well slightly incompetant since I can always complete the task, but not without cursing a few times)?

Tell me - what's your view on pin and collar systems? Invented by Satan?

Why, oh why, can't every bracelet have screwed in links!

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Thank you for reminding me why I like NATOs so much!

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As the son of a carpenter & amateur mechanic who didn't go into either of those fields, I can almost assure myself that if I'm getting frustrated with a job it's either A) I'm not experienced enough in the skill I'm trying to employ or B) I don't have the proper tools or C) both of the above. 

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UnholiestJedi

As the son of a carpenter & amateur mechanic who didn't go into either of those fields, I can almost assure myself that if I'm getting frustrated with a job it's either A) I'm not experienced enough in the skill I'm trying to employ or B) I don't have the proper tools or C) both of the above. 

Yep - a) done this at least 50 times - so that should qualify as the experience; and b) have the proper tools.

I think there is a third option - knowing the trick. Maybe that comes with experience, but not necessarily. Sometimes there is shortcut that has been sussed out or a "trick" to making the process easier. Have not found that yet for pin/collar despite watching a bunch of videos.

Anyone with a slick way of doing this - please post a link to a video or describe your "trick"

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that is true, i lost a few of seiko collar pins back in the day. this system is the most cancerous system on the bracelet 

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I agree with the OP. Why can't everyon  just use the simple system w/o the collar. Why must they torture us?

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Have all the tools, and adjusted countless bracelets from Seiko to Rolex, and they are still the worst. At this point in my tenure, I flat out refuse to buy a watch that has them. Total garbage, unnecessary cost-cutting measure, likely indicative of other shortcuts you will eventually find with the product. Absolutely despise them and brands should be ashamed of themselves for using them. Remember, when the brand was working with the manufacturer, they intentionally chose to put these lousy pins in to save a few cents. Cents.  

Edited to included preferences and highlight my disdain:

  • IWC/Cartier tool-less pins
  • Screws
  • Push pins
  • Eating ten-day-old gas station sushi covered in stale beer and cottage cheese from a dumpster
  • 100 other things 
  • Pin and collar (which has less value in the garbage than the sushi)
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Had to remove links on an Oris bracelet. Had a go using my own tools. Got the pin halfway out before dread hit me. Took it to a professional to complete the job.

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It depends on the system. The current Seiko 5 bracelets have pins that expand at the end. They are very easy to adjust if you know what you are doing, and you may drop your watch if you don't.

Solid pins are often brutal, even with the right tools. Inexpensive bracelet with screws are a problem of a different kind. ("Hmm, I just stripped that one.")

It's eye opening how easy good aftermarket bracelets are to adjust.

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Not sure it was Satan but it was the same individual who invented heat sealed plastic packaging. 

You know those where they say do this:

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But you end up doing this because it is the only way...

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I took my pin and collar bracelet to a watchmaker.  He feels your pain.  I felt it was £20 well spent. 

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Yes I agree! Dont you wish there’s a bracelet that can be easily adjusted like a strap oh man that would be heavenly!!

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I agree they are a real pain, particularly to the uninitiated , I’ve kind of accepted them now I’ve become used to them, in all fairness in my early days I’ve stripped enough screws as well.

 One of the worst I’ve come across was the screwed pins on an Omega Speedmaster where the pin goes through the link and a horrific small screw then fits in the end of the pin. Designed by Satan, who obviously has three hands if he can fit them.

easiest by a mile are the standard split pins, I’ve never had a single issue with any.

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A minor pain in the butt. There’s a special level of hell for the Zodiac jubilee, tho. Damn that one nearly sent me insane. 

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Ichibunz

Yes I agree! Dont you wish there’s a bracelet that can be easily adjusted like a strap oh man that would be heavenly!!

Umm… There is.  See my thread here:

https://www.watchcrunch.com/Internaut/posts/we-need-to-talk-about-china-12465

The bracelet is otherwise pretty awful but the principles are there.

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Internaut

Umm… There is.  See my thread here:

https://www.watchcrunch.com/Internaut/posts/we-need-to-talk-about-china-12465

The bracelet is otherwise pretty awful but the principles are there.

Ohh cool miss this…

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Here's the PMWF guide I found back in the day for Seiko monster type. Having the right 'pushers' was the key but it is quite devious.
 

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